1911 Trigger Job and Work
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Tim Thompson Shelby Ms. www.billscustomautomatics.com. top notch 1911 gunsmith, a few other members will probably chime in with some good smiths in South Ms. that will be a little closer to you. BTW welcome to the forum.
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Billy Tierce - Utica
Tim at Bills custom automatics is great fella...just a long haul for you Southern Boys....might be worth a road trip however
Bobby Jones in S. Jxn is a great 1911 smith but He's not taking any more work till Dec....so you'll have to get in line...with me
Tim at Bills custom automatics is great fella...just a long haul for you Southern Boys....might be worth a road trip however
Bobby Jones in S. Jxn is a great 1911 smith but He's not taking any more work till Dec....so you'll have to get in line...with me
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Can't help you with the trigger job -- BUT - Welcome to the forum and look forward to your participation!!
Again,
Again,
cray, what do you have and what are you looking for as far as trigger pull weight? Tom, you said Para, but what pull weight are you looking for?
Also, what is your time schedule? I may be able to help.
I've used two of the four above-mentioned smiths and was satisfied with the work, but I haven't used any of them for 1911 triggers. I'm not saying they can't do it by any means; just stating that up front.
If you want any major improvement, you'll probably have to replace the hammer, sear, and sear spring (and usually the disconnector). With Para (and Kimber, and many other factory 1911's), the hammer and sear are MIM. If you put them in the jig and clean up the engagement surfaces or cut the angles (anything more than lightly polishing), you basically are cutting through the hardness of the part and the trigger job won't last for a long time. If you are just doing a modest improvement, you might can get by just tweaking (or maybe replacing and tuning) the sear spring.
Also, what is your time schedule? I may be able to help.
I've used two of the four above-mentioned smiths and was satisfied with the work, but I haven't used any of them for 1911 triggers. I'm not saying they can't do it by any means; just stating that up front.
If you want any major improvement, you'll probably have to replace the hammer, sear, and sear spring (and usually the disconnector). With Para (and Kimber, and many other factory 1911's), the hammer and sear are MIM. If you put them in the jig and clean up the engagement surfaces or cut the angles (anything more than lightly polishing), you basically are cutting through the hardness of the part and the trigger job won't last for a long time. If you are just doing a modest improvement, you might can get by just tweaking (or maybe replacing and tuning) the sear spring.
DB, not sure what the Para needs....the trigger seems to "drag" and "catch" during the squeeze....it is evident visually and by feel during dry firing. (and of course shooting)... hard to explain other than that....so, wanting a trigger that is smoother, has shorter travel, lighter weight of pull, and a crisp break... :thinking:
I gotcha. I am picky about my triggers, I admit. Any idea what pull weight when you say lighter? 2lb? 3lb? 4lb? I've got a digital trigger pull gauge if you want to see where it is at now.
I agree with the above and will hazard a guess that the trigger bow is at least part of the "drag". The take up and overtravel should be able to be adjusted with the bow, too.
I agree with the above and will hazard a guess that the trigger bow is at least part of the "drag". The take up and overtravel should be able to be adjusted with the bow, too.
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I aint no smith and ya'll sound like you are on the right track
Keep in mind that if this is a competition gun that's one thing...or just a fun gun...but if its a carry gun...go easy on the Mods....a 2 lb trigger is very "light" under stress...
When I want a trigger job...I tell the smith to do what it takes to get it right...if that takes replacing some POS factory parts....then so be it
I'll mention Thomas Bullock at Surplus City Gun range...He's a very good gun smith
or you could look at Clark Custom over in La...I imagine the wait time there is long as well
Good Luck fellas
If you have to have the best....Bobby Jones in S. Jxn is your man....Long wait
Keep in mind that if this is a competition gun that's one thing...or just a fun gun...but if its a carry gun...go easy on the Mods....a 2 lb trigger is very "light" under stress...
When I want a trigger job...I tell the smith to do what it takes to get it right...if that takes replacing some POS factory parts....then so be it
I'll mention Thomas Bullock at Surplus City Gun range...He's a very good gun smith
or you could look at Clark Custom over in La...I imagine the wait time there is long as well
Good Luck fellas
If you have to have the best....Bobby Jones in S. Jxn is your man....Long wait
Something for y'all to think about regarding weight vs. intended use.
Thomas did a trigger for me that was very good and lasted. I have felt several others he did that were also really good and haven't had any problems. I do know of one that did, but Thomas took care of it and made it right. I would use him again.
The parts available today are so much better than what was available just 10-20 years ago. Really light triggers wouldn't last on the old, poor quality parts. Now, you shouldn't have to baby a trigger in my opinion, even down to ridiculously light weights. If you have to with good parts, the engagement isn't right. My $.02.
The average trigger job isn't rocket science. If the frame holes/geometry are right and you use top quality parts, it is pretty easy to get a really nice pull that lasts. It's when a hole is cut wrong that things start getting hard to get proper engagement and make things work right. That's where a good smith really comes into his own.
Thomas did a trigger for me that was very good and lasted. I have felt several others he did that were also really good and haven't had any problems. I do know of one that did, but Thomas took care of it and made it right. I would use him again.
The parts available today are so much better than what was available just 10-20 years ago. Really light triggers wouldn't last on the old, poor quality parts. Now, you shouldn't have to baby a trigger in my opinion, even down to ridiculously light weights. If you have to with good parts, the engagement isn't right. My $.02.
The average trigger job isn't rocket science. If the frame holes/geometry are right and you use top quality parts, it is pretty easy to get a really nice pull that lasts. It's when a hole is cut wrong that things start getting hard to get proper engagement and make things work right. That's where a good smith really comes into his own.
I don't mean any disrespect to Mr. Jones, but may I ask what this is based on? Have you felt any of his 1911 triggers or know someone with long term experience with them? I have never met him or spoken with him, but I have also never heard anyone say they had a 1911 trigger (or other 1911 work for that matter) done by him. I'm not saying for a second he can't do it or isn't great. Just curious why he is "best". I know he is highly respected for his revolver work, especially building PPC revolvers and working over their triggers, but I think I remember reading something where he said he only felt comfortable working on revolvers or something like that. That's probably why I haven't thought of him as a 1911 guy.msredneck said:
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DB, he's been doing 1911 stuff since 1961. He started as a gunsmith for the US Navy Pistol team. He builds Bianchi Cup, PPC, NRA Action, Bullseye and IPSC guns. As good as he is on the wheel-gun, he takes the 1911 stuff just as seriously and has been doing them longer. He's built guns for shooters from all over the world.
I think he became so well known his wheel-gun work that his 1911 stuff gets overlooked, but the revolver stuff came along much later.
I think he became so well known his wheel-gun work that his 1911 stuff gets overlooked, but the revolver stuff came along much later.
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DB...I have talked to Bobby numerous times and He's always booked solid...a good sign...I've felt many of his triggers and customizations on other shooter's semi's and their wheel guns....I've never felt anything any better.....I've never heard of any dissatisfication issues either....that's why I'm in line myself....and its a wait...Hope I can last that long....
Good Luck all....there are still a lot of choices out there....That's the good news
Good Luck all....there are still a lot of choices out there....That's the good news
Gotcha, thanks guys. I guess I am just surprised that I have been at least somewhat involved in the shooting sports for 10 years in the Jackson area and have never heard anyone talk about his 1911 work or seen one that I am aware of, while I have seen several revolvers he has worked on and heard of many others.
I also knew that Thomas Bullock built MHP shooter Philip Hemphill's PPC record setting 6" 9mm 1911 years ago (before he started shooting S&W Performance Center autos) while Mr. Jones was doing all of his revolver work.
I dug around, and I am pretty sure this is the article I had read before: http://www.nrahq.org/law/graphics/winter2001.pdf. On page 5 there is a little bit about him, and it does mention that he got his start as a "Navel Armoror who tinkered with .45's". I didn't remember that part, admittedly, but the article is from 2001 and I read it years ago. The part that stuck with me for whatever reason was about Smith & Wessons being the handguns that he is really comfortable working with and just the fact that the rest of the article talks about how well folks have done with his revolvers (Pages 1,2, and 5).
Always good to have options and good smiths close by. I'd like to check out some of his 1911 work sometime.
I also knew that Thomas Bullock built MHP shooter Philip Hemphill's PPC record setting 6" 9mm 1911 years ago (before he started shooting S&W Performance Center autos) while Mr. Jones was doing all of his revolver work.
I dug around, and I am pretty sure this is the article I had read before: http://www.nrahq.org/law/graphics/winter2001.pdf. On page 5 there is a little bit about him, and it does mention that he got his start as a "Navel Armoror who tinkered with .45's". I didn't remember that part, admittedly, but the article is from 2001 and I read it years ago. The part that stuck with me for whatever reason was about Smith & Wessons being the handguns that he is really comfortable working with and just the fact that the rest of the article talks about how well folks have done with his revolvers (Pages 1,2, and 5).
Always good to have options and good smiths close by. I'd like to check out some of his 1911 work sometime.
Hey guys,
Sorry I kind of fell off there for a second, I usually get email notifications when a post was made and havent gotten any in a while. I have a Dan Wesson Heritage, that Im looking at getting someone to drop some C&S trigger parts in and fit an EGW oversize barrel bushing. Nothing major. A guy that I work with, his dad suggested the guy from Surplus City, I might give him a try, or I might just send it off. Im really not sure right now, just seeing whats out there.
Sorry I kind of fell off there for a second, I usually get email notifications when a post was made and havent gotten any in a while. I have a Dan Wesson Heritage, that Im looking at getting someone to drop some C&S trigger parts in and fit an EGW oversize barrel bushing. Nothing major. A guy that I work with, his dad suggested the guy from Surplus City, I might give him a try, or I might just send it off. Im really not sure right now, just seeing whats out there.
If you just want some help installing the C&S parts, I'd be happy to assist. C&S parts are good quality and odds are they will really "drop in" and give a good, safe pull. There is a chance they don't though, and if it is more than minor tweaking that is needed, it would be out of my comfort zone on someone elses' parts and need to go to a 'smith. I don't know how familiar you are with the innards of a 1911, but if you aren't very familiar and would like to have a hand in it, we could give it a try. Worse case scenario we put the factory parts back in and you are just out some time. If you'd rather pass, it won't hurt my feelings. Just an offer of some free help if you want it.
I've never fit a bushing (or a barrel, or slide/frame fit), so I am not much help on any of that. I do have a friend that should be back in town in a few weeks that has fit a few bushings and has the jigs, stones, etc for doing serious trigger work. I can introduce you to him if you'd like.
Thomas Bullock discussed above is the guy at Surplus. He is not there all the time, so you may want to call and try to get him on the phone or get his schedule if you want to talk to him directly.
Bryant
I've never fit a bushing (or a barrel, or slide/frame fit), so I am not much help on any of that. I do have a friend that should be back in town in a few weeks that has fit a few bushings and has the jigs, stones, etc for doing serious trigger work. I can introduce you to him if you'd like.
Thomas Bullock discussed above is the guy at Surplus. He is not there all the time, so you may want to call and try to get him on the phone or get his schedule if you want to talk to him directly.
Bryant
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