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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am relatively unfamiliar with the types of competitive shooting disciplines that are out there. I know about USPSA and IDPA. And know some of the basic tennets of their various "classes". What I have not seen though, is what I would call an IDPA style tactical 3 gun match. From what I have seen, the 3 gun matches out there seem to be more of an equipment race rather than an attempt to test the skill of the shooter behind the gun they would choose for self defense, combat, etc. Is there such a competition out there? I would like to be able to compete with my guns, without feeling like i have to spend thousands on them to be able to compete.
 

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As a former President of the USPSA club at Magnolia and the current USPSA Section Coordinator for Mississippi, I'd be happy to try and be of some help if I can. For the record, USPSA 3-gun matches in the Jackson area have pretty much died completely, as far as I am aware. Turnout dropped off and I don't believe one has been held in well more than a year. 3-gun matches are still held in Poplarville, and their website includes some info regarding the minimum equipment required: http://smsps.com/SMPSA_Equipment.htm A little farther away, but the USPSA club in Glen, MS (near Corinth) is hosting the 2010 Mississippi 3-gun Challenge this weekend. PM Hopalong on this forum or visit their website if you are interested in more info about this match or other matches they shoot throughout the year: http://crssa.com/.

Other than that, I am not really aware or familiar with any 3-gun matches being held in Mississippi. There is some type of unsanctioned match held near the Coast in Woolmarket, but I don't have enough info to really be of much help. I can try and put you in contact with some folks with info if you would like. Similarly, I'm not much help with IDPA. IDPA does have a set of rules for 3-gun, but they are still listed as "provisional". They can be found here: http://www.idpa.com/Documents/IDPA_DMG_rules_07062010.pdf The only IDPA clubs listed in Mississippi are in Glen (same as the USPSA club), Saltillo, and Hernando. I am not sure if any of them are shooting 3-gun matches, but you may want to contact them and find out. Their contact info can be found here: http://idpa.com/clublist.asp?pick=MS

Not knowing what you know or don't know about USPSA and its different divisions, it is hard for me to offer much else. I will add that in my opinion, while there is a certain level of equipment needed for any particular division or sport, I think most of them do test the skill of the shooter behind the gun and are not just "equipment races". The problem is making a sport where truly every choice for self defense/combat or personal preference competes on a level playing field. Can I ask what you have and want to compete with? Odds are, you could compete with it and have a good time doing it while getting in some good practice. Whether or not you will feel like you should do something to improve or change what you have is only something you can control though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Wow lots of info, thanks Chaffin.

Let me try and explain what it is I mean. You say it is very difficult to create a competition where every choice can compete on a level playing field. I completely agree with you. With that said, if somebody shows you a picture of their Armalite, you can probably determine if that gun is for competition, combat or hunting/plinking without looking too hard at it. There are certain features that are relatively distinct in each genre. It has now gotten to where the line between combat arms and competition arms is a bit blurred because competition type accessories are making their way onto the scene.

I in no way meant that the people who shoot open class USPSA for instance (Miculek or Ricazza for example) aren't skilled shooters. But those guys also compete in a division where as far as my understanding goes, anything goes. So in order to stay in tune with shooters on their same level, they have to do things that shave split seconds off of their times. And they reach a point, where in order to get any faster, they have to tweak equipment.

What I would like to see is a 3 gun comp, where average joes like me and LEO and military alike who have an armalite that they slapped some accessories on, a production combat handgun (glock, Sig, XD, etc etc), and some sort of tactical type shotgun can compete. Basically, the guns you would pick up and take to a combat handgun course, combat shotgun or tactical carbine course.
 

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I've been to a couple of matches where you're classed based on the equipment you bring, not on your so-called skill level. (ie Master, GM, etc.). Those are the ones where you really work on technique.

I participated in LaRue's match back in May. While you were classified by equipment (allegedly), it really came down to who was the fastest. There was a lot of spray and pray where people unloaded full mag's just to ensure max score and didnt focus on "clean" shots. Really pissed me off -- as well as several others. Left a bad taste in many people's mouths.

If things go well, within a relatively short time, I'll have a range set up here in the Golden Triangle that will offer good competitions that focus on technique and the evolution of the shooter. Not beating the clock. I'll keep everyone posted on the progress of this pipe dream.

Back to your original question/statement, its my opinion that if you participate in a 3 gun match of any kind, anywhere, you should be competing with yourself and your prior "scores". Use what you're comfortable with. Not what everyone says is the latest, coolest crap. Especially when it comes to AR's. Simplest is best. You dont get points for style. Just go out, surround yourself with like-minded people, and have fun. Beat yourself first. Then worry about everyone else.

But I digress....
 

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As a side note, I do a lot of training classes utilizing the latest, tried and true techniques fresh out of the mil. I'm always up for a good road trip to spend time with people who like to shoot, have fun, and learn. Most of the time, I walk away learning something from my "students" just as they did from me. That's the way I like it.

Semper Gumby
 

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So when and where are these gonna be? I'd like to get in on it.
 

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In up for matches. I havent shot a combat COF in a while but when I was a PMI we did the classes back in the day. I'm also up for just setting the range up and running thru a course for practice. Is there a way to do that?
 

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That would be cool. I'd like to get as much practice in as possible. I've gotten rusty from not combat shooting in years. I tried to get the national guard to do some when I was in there but they thought I was insane.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
lima4specter said:
...that will offer good competitions that focus on technique and the evolution of the shooter. Not beating the clock.
^ This. I would like to see a system that rewards effective and efficient handling of malfunctions for example. Penalties for over exposure from a barricade just to name a couple. A Combat shooting competition that focuses on good solid technique, and ultimately effectiveness rather than primarily how fast you can do it. Time can be a factor, but only give you a certain percentage of total points. I don't know how you would do all of that, but that's what I would like to see.
 

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The key is starting it with people that will hold themselves accountable to those standards. Then, implementing systems to account/penalize/etc. for time/mistakes/etc.
As with anything and everything in shooting, its got to start with quality people first. Lt. Dan and I are going to start some unofficial, just for fun, competing against yourself first, classes that I've been doing for a while now but here in MS now that I'm back "home". All I need, for the time being, is a location, central to all interested parties, (ie a good pasture) and I can start doing weekend workshops. Then transition it into competitions when I have a suitable range.
Im sure you know that word of mouth makes/breaks a lot of stuff in this community. So lets get the good word out.
 

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lima4specter said:
The key is starting it with people that will hold themselves accountable to those standards. Then, implementing systems to account/penalize/etc. for time/mistakes/etc.
As with anything and everything in shooting, its got to start with quality people first. Lt. Dan and I are going to start some unofficial, just for fun, competing against yourself first, classes that I've been doing for a while now but here in MS now that I'm back "home". All I need, for the time being, is a location, central to all interested parties, (ie a good pasture) and I can start doing weekend workshops. Then transition it into competitions when I have a suitable range.
Im sure you know that word of mouth makes/breaks a lot of stuff in this community. So lets get the good word out.
I have only lived down here for 6 moths or so, so I dont really know too much of the area. I can ask some guys I know the live in Wiggins if they got some land we can use. I'm all for this and I think more people need to know how to effectivly use their assult rifles rather than just showing them off and plinking with them. I'm not trying to talk down to anyone or call anyone out but I just know a lot of people that own AR's, AK's, MP5's etc. that just show them off or shoot squirrels with em. I know theres a lot of Veterans and Combat Veterans that have been in these situations either in the jungle or urban and know the importance of using the weapon for its intended use. Shotguns and pistols also fit perfectly into this, I know I used a Benelli in urban combat as well as a M9(junk IMO). That was a bit of a rant, sorry for that haha.
 

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lima4specter said:
I dont have the facility of my own just yet. So, if you know anyone that has a good pasture, yeah, we can make it happen.
I've got some pastures, and a nice long gas line that goes down a hill in Philadelphia if anyone wants to get together a shoot one weekend. I will try to take some pictures when I go by this weekend and see if you guys think it would work out.


For all you Jackson area guys, it's about an hour and fifteen minute drive from Jackson to my place, a little less if your coming from Brandon.


-spencer-
 

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Cliff Cargill said:
lima4specter said:
I've been to a couple of matches where you're classed based on the equipment you bring, not on your so-called skill level. (ie Master, GM, etc.).
What do you mean, "so-called skill level?"

Can you expand on this, please? :thanx:
Yes sir.
I've been in a few matches that essentially tried to group people based on something similar to USPSA/IPSC skill levels (grand master, master, novice, etc). I think its mostly pointless to do this in a 3 gun match because a) does it really matter if you're shooting with people "as good as you" -- and if you're really that bothered by shooting with a novice, then what kind of "ambassador" to shooting sports are you, seriously?! b) the essence of the sport is to have fun, and beat yourself every time you go out. Yes, I know its nice to win stuff off the prize table but everyone has to start somewhere and everyone can always improve on something.
Before this turns into a big soap box for me, suffice it to say that 3 gun matches have turned into what duck hunting was back in the 80s and 90s.....who has the biggest and most expensive toys and the wanna-be MOH heros. IMO that really puts a HURGE (which is one bigger than huge) dampener on such events for people like me who truly enjoy the pure competition of making ourselves better, price tags/style don't get your points .... and realize that you pretty much have to be dead to be a MOH recepient.
 

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I have no problems with having "novices" in my group. I train them on a daily basis for a living.

I always squad with new people.

I still don't fully understand your post.


As for the equipment, there are different division that don't cost much to get into.
 
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