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Discussion Starter #1
According to MS code, a sign must be "written" and clearly readable "from no less than 10 feet" and state that "carrying of a pistol or revolver is prohibited."

According to that, the gunbuster sign of a Beretta with a red line through it wouldn't be legal. Do you observe such signs or do you carry past them?
 

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Signs, signs, everywhere there's signs
Blockin' up the scenery, breakin' my mind
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign


Concealed is concealed! I have to ignore one of those stupid little signs every day when I pick up my kids from a "fish in a bucket" zone.
 

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no habla ingles
 

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As a lawyer, I don't want to try to explain to a judge that the clearly understood, universal lined out gun sign didn't say "carrying of a pistol or revolver is prohibited." I attended a training seminar in Memphis last year which suggested ignoring non-conforming signs. I don't think it is very good advice. Even if you won, which I don't think is terribly likely at the lower court level, you'll probably be out a few grand in legal fees, lose your license for a time, etc.

As a Christian I am required to respect the civil authorities, unless and until their requirements conflict with God's. I don't feel that gun-free zones, as stupid as they are, do. Just my thoughts.
 

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gunluvinatty said:
As a lawyer, I don't want to try to explain to a judge that the clearly understood, universal lined out gun sign didn't say "carrying of a pistol or revolver is prohibited." I attended a training seminar in Memphis last year which suggested ignoring non-conforming signs. I don't think it is very good advice. Even if you won, which I don't think is terribly likely at the lower court level, you'll probably be out a few grand in legal fees, lose your license for a time, etc.

As a Christian I am required to respect the civil authorities, unless and until their requirements conflict with God's. I don't feel that gun-free zones, as stupid as they are, do. Just my thoughts.
I agree with the above .... I have decided to do what MsRedNeck suggested several threads back when he finds a sign --- disarm (for a few minutes!!), go into the establishment, tell the owner that you were going to do business with him/her, but can not patronize them now due to their policy, and then go somewhere else and make your purchase. I have done this on two occasions ... one with a very polite "I understand response" and the other with a "I don't care" type response ..... Just do not do business with them!!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
gunluvinatty said:
As a lawyer, I don't want to try to explain to a judge that the clearly understood, universal lined out gun sign didn't say "carrying of a pistol or revolver is prohibited." I attended a training seminar in Memphis last year which suggested ignoring non-conforming signs. I don't think it is very good advice. Even if you won, which I don't think is terribly likely at the lower court level, you'll probably be out a few grand in legal fees, lose your license for a time, etc.

As a Christian I am required to respect the civil authorities, unless and until their requirements conflict with God's. I don't feel that gun-free zones, as stupid as they are, do. Just my thoughts.
Good advice. While the lined-out gun sign may not follow the letter of the law specifically, the intent is clear to a reasonable person.
 

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dnr1128 said:
gunluvinatty said:
As a lawyer, I don't want to try to explain to a judge that the clearly understood, universal lined out gun sign didn't say "carrying of a pistol or revolver is prohibited." I attended a training seminar in Memphis last year which suggested ignoring non-conforming signs. I don't think it is very good advice. Even if you won, which I don't think is terribly likely at the lower court level, you'll probably be out a few grand in legal fees, lose your license for a time, etc.

As a Christian I am required to respect the civil authorities, unless and until their requirements conflict with God's. I don't feel that gun-free zones, as stupid as they are, do. Just my thoughts.
Good advice. While the lined-out gun sign may not follow the letter of the law specifically, the intent is clear to a reasonable person.
as long as the sign is reasonable yes then the intent is clear to a reasonable person...i was at theater on airport road/lakeland the other day and noticed they had a sign up...it was mixed up with a bunch of other garbage, and was about the size of a silver dollar...i had to squint to see it from about 3 feet away.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
What if the sign isn't posted at all entrances? A few weeks ago I was Ochsners hospital in New Orleans and there was a gunbuster sign at the ER but not one at the entrance from the parking garage. Makes me wonder. 'Course I don't know what Louisiana law is regarding signage, though.
 

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When an individual admits online in a public forum to ignoring signs, it would defintely make it difficult to defend themselves in court some day down the road. I'm always amazed at what people put out in the public domain.
Gonzo
 
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gunluvinatty said:
As a Christian I am required to respect the civil authorities, unless and until their requirements conflict with God's. I don't feel that gun-free zones, as stupid as they are, do. Just my thoughts.
That made me rethink my stance on this. I might have to pay more attention to where I carry.

Do I follow the Spirit of the law or the Letter of the law. If the business isn't following the law am I required to follow what they intended or can I ignore the sign because it isn't what state law requires in order to keep me from carrying?

Does anyone know if the red line signs are considered to be within the law?
 

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Obey laws that do not conflict with Christian doctrine if you are a Christian and this honors God because he is trying to keep you out of "unnecessary" trouble. If you are not a Christian, obey the laws anyway. Whether Christian or not, don't create problems that could cost the rest of us or privileges much less harm your family and their well being; because you have to pay a fine or end up in jail, by being a one man army of self-opinionated, self-created rights. Remember, it is WE THE PEOPLE not me or you only.

The right to carry a gun has tremendous responsibilities and is not a license for us to do what we won't because of how we feel. Even in defense of our lives or our families lives, the taking of another life is no light matter and it could because of uncontrolled emotions and unspiritual motives cost someone eternity. God is not someone to mess around with and some will see that is so when they leave this life.
 

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bullet said:
Obey laws that do not conflict with Christian doctrine if you are a Christian and this honors God because he is trying to keep you out of "unnecessary" trouble. If you are not a Christian, obey the laws anyway. Whether Christian or not, don't create problems that could cost the rest of us or privileges much less harm your family and their well being; because you have to pay a fine or end up in jail, by being a one man army of self-opinionated, self-created rights. Remember, it is WE THE PEOPLE not me or you only.

The right to carry a gun has tremendous responsibilities and is not a license for us to do what we won't because of how we feel. Even in defense of our lives or our families lives, the taking of another life is no light matter and it could because of uncontrolled emotions and unspiritual motives cost someone eternity. God is not someone to mess around with and some will see that is so when they leave this life.
+++++1111 i have the honor of doing security tonite at relay for life at tupelo high school football field, don't know what i'm going to secure,no gun,no knife,allowed on school property ,, :thinking: guess i'll carry my walking stick
 

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RIVERBILLY said:
+++++1111 i have the honor of doing security tonite at relay for life at tupelo high school football field, don't know what i'm going to secure,no gun,no knife,allowed on school property ,, :thinking: guess i'll carry my walking stick
At 7 feet tall, you should be ok!!!!!! :2tup:
 

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RIVERBILLY said:
bullet said:
Obey laws that do not conflict with Christian doctrine if you are a Christian and this honors God because he is trying to keep you out of "unnecessary" trouble. If you are not a Christian, obey the laws anyway. Whether Christian or not, don't create problems that could cost the rest of us or privileges much less harm your family and their well being; because you have to pay a fine or end up in jail, by being a one man army of self-opinionated, self-created rights. Remember, it is WE THE PEOPLE not me or you only.

The right to carry a gun has tremendous responsibilities and is not a license for us to do what we won't because of how we feel. Even in defense of our lives or our families lives, the taking of another life is no light matter and it could because of uncontrolled emotions and unspiritual motives cost someone eternity. God is not someone to mess around with and some will see that is so when they leave this life.
+++++1111 i have the honor of doing security tonite at relay for life at tupelo high school football field, don't know what i'm going to secure,no gun,no knife,allowed on school property ,, :thinking: guess i'll carry my walking stick
Your walking stick will do fine. I am a member of the Korean, World and American Association of Royal Traditional Hop Ki do Instructors for 28yrs and one of our main defensive weapons is a cain.
 

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TheGreatGonzo said:
When an individual admits online in a public forum to ignoring signs, it would defintely make it difficult to defend themselves in court some day down the road. I'm always amazed at what people put out in the public domain.
Gonzo
Really? What is the charge or fine for carrying in a business with a sign? The most that happens is they ask you to leave. (how do they know in the first place?) If you don't then maybe you get a tresspassing charge. We aren't talking about courthouses and such.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Subsonix said:
TheGreatGonzo said:
When an individual admits online in a public forum to ignoring signs, it would defintely make it difficult to defend themselves in court some day down the road. I'm always amazed at what people put out in the public domain.
Gonzo
Really? What is the charge or fine for carrying in a business with a sign? The most that happens is they ask you to leave. (how do they know in the first place?) If you don't then maybe you get a tresspassing charge. We aren't talking about courthouses and such.
At best just tell you to leave. At worst call the police, who can arrest you and yank your license. Most of the time it would be the former. When I worked at Northpark mall we banned several people for carrying inside. I hated to do it but thats what the mall owners want.
 

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dnr1128 said:
At best just tell you to leave. At worst call the police, who can arrest you and yank your license. Most of the time it would be the former. When I worked at Northpark mall we banned several people for carrying inside. I hated to do it but thats what the mall owners want.
This thread started about non-compliance signs and that is what I am talking about. Let's keep it straight and on subject.

Ok, so lets say they just call the cops instead of asking me to leave. I seriously doubt the police would arrest me unless I was refusing to leave after being asked or breaking the law in some way. If their sign is not in compliance, why would the court pull your license? The businesses have to play by the rules just like we do.

If the sign IS proper, what you said certainly applies.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Subsonix said:
This thread started about non-compliance signs and that is what I am talking about. Let's keep it straight and on subject.

Ok, so lets say they just call the cops instead of asking me to leave. I seriously doubt the police would arrest me unless I was refusing to leave after being asked or breaking the law in some way. If their sign is not in compliance, why would the court pull your license? The businesses have to play by the rules just like we do.

If the sign IS proper, what you said certainly applies.
I'd be surprised if the average LEO would differentiate between the red line sign and the proper sign. He may not arrest you, but he probably wouldn't tell the property owner to straighten out the sign either.

I'm not interested in spending a ton of money proving to a judge what is and what isn't a legal sign.

Point is, the red-line sign may not follow the exact letter of the law, but the point to a reasonable person is clear, and if you opt to not follow it, you're risking a legal battle that you may not win.
 

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dnr1128 said:
Subsonix said:
This thread started about non-compliance signs and that is what I am talking about. Let's keep it straight and on subject.

Ok, so lets say they just call the cops instead of asking me to leave. I seriously doubt the police would arrest me unless I was refusing to leave after being asked or breaking the law in some way. If their sign is not in compliance, why would the court pull your license? The businesses have to play by the rules just like we do.

If the sign IS proper, what you said certainly applies.
I'd be surprised if the average LEO would differentiate between the red line sign and the proper sign. He may not arrest you, but he probably wouldn't tell the property owner to straighten out the sign either.

I'm not interested in spending a ton of money proving to a judge what is and what isn't a legal sign.

Point is, the red-line sign may not follow the exact letter of the law, but the point to a reasonable person is clear, and if you opt to not follow it, you're risking a legal battle that you may not win.
Your point is so valid indeed. The issue and premise the judge can and most likely will stand on is the fact that the sign even though it does not follow the exact letter of the law, is a sign that a reasonable person would abide by and if you don't abide by it, then he can classify you in his opinion as a none reasonable person. If so, you loose, plain and simple.
 
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