[Hrdnox]

Probably a silly question, but I have one of these bottom feeders that I like a lot. Except for that awful trigger. Anyways, wonder why no one's come up with an improved trigger group for them. Seems they make them for similar bottom feeders, but the lowly Sigma gets little love.

I've been around the block many times trying to improve mine. Cleaned it up some and removed the pigtail spring, but put it back in when I didn't notice any difference. I was hesitant to do much real polishing for fear that I really didn't have enough knowledge to do it properly. Well, yesterday, I got a wild hair and decided to go to town on it. Started out badly when the pigtail spring went flying across the room and is forever lost in my carpet. Don't think it'll ever be found, at least not by me.

Anyways, I studied the mechanism for a while and thought I had figured out what was causing the grittiness. Then, I polished the sear for another hour, until it had a mirror finish on all sides. Outside the gun, it seemed to operate very nicely. I put it back together and it was a lot smoother, but still somewhat gritty, so I went back to work. Found that the two sear springs were rubbing together causing the grit, so I decide to do something I read about and removed the outer spring. This appeared to be the key of all the grit. Don't know how it'll perform, but dry firing is near perfect. It was an amazing difference. Even pulled out my Glock for comparison and believe the Sigma has the better trigger now.

It seems this modification works well on some guns, but causes light strike problems on others. Not sure how mine will do, but if I do encounter problems, I plan to replace the single spring with a heavier one, instead of going back to the old dual spring grit meister. Not sure this was a great idea, but it sure made a world of difference. This gun has always be relegated to a range gun, so I don't guess it's critical, but I hope it works out. I've run about 1600 flawless rounds through it that would have been much more enjoyable with a decent trigger. I've always felt it made me a better shooter, in that the trigger did require a little extra attention. Don't know how I'll feel about it if that's gone away, but I'm sure I'll grow to appreciate the improvement.

 

[Xd357]

The trigger was it's biggest down fall. Glad you found a solution.

 

[TomBomb]

Had one in 40s&w...liked gun ok except for trigger. The gun ran fine and reliably, but couldn't hit s*** with the factory trigger.... A friend wanted to buy it, so he did. For same price range, I much prefer a Taurus!

 

[captain-03]

A couple of previous threads on the subject:

http://www.msgunowners.com/handguns-f15/smith-and-wesson-sigma-t4306.htm?highlight=sigma

http://www.msgunowners.com/handguns-f15/sw-sigma-t871.htm?highlight=sigma

 

[captain-03]

If your fix turns out to be a fix -- Do mine!!

 

[GunOneDown]

so you removed 2 factory springs???? (one lost in carpet and other you removed)
a bit of polishing
Now you think its better than your Glock? you might ought to do a .25cent polish job on your Glock and try again.

Why nobody came out with a trigger kit? Sigma Line is a low end shooter that will function and be reliable for a low price. S&W made these to sell "QUANTITY" not "QUALITY". They serve there intended purpose. Price for a good trigger job would be about same as buying a new gun so why? buy a Glock,XD, or M&P that wouldn't need all the work.
For a self-defense or "truck-gun" it will be fine even with the 11# trigger. purpose built gun is what i say.

 

[Hrdnox]

A couple of previous threads on the subject:

http://www.msgunowners.com/handguns-f15/smith-and-wesson-sigma-t4306.htm?highlight=sigma

http://www.msgunowners.com/handguns-f15/sw-sigma-t871.htm?highlight=sigma

Thanks Captain-03. Looks like I picked the wrong place to post this one. Tough crowd, for sure. I bought my Sigma just because it was cheap. Like others, I was warned, but decided to do it anyway. So far, I have no regrets. It always goes bang, feeds anything, and is easy to clean. Now that the trigger is better, I'll probably like it better. Additionally, when my son or a friend asks to borrow a gun, I have no problem handing it to them with my blessings. I'd be hesitant to do that with some of my other guns.

Not sure if you were joking about doing yours or not, but it wasn't difficult. Take down is simple, only one pin, and the trigger group is fairly easy to work with once you understand how it works. It'll go back together several different ways, but only works when correct. I did all the polishing with a combination of 150 grit aluminum oxide sandpaper to get the deep ridges out and finished off the polishing with 320 grit wet or dry. Took about a half hour, but would have gone faster if I hadn't been so determined to get the mirror finish. As far as the springs go, it's been proven that the pigtail spring was unnecessary from the beginning and was very little more than an answer to Glock's law suit. IMHO, the trigger was the same with or without it. The second spring didn't seem to do much, either. It's quite a bit shorter than the mainspring and appeared to be there just to re-enforce it. The remaining spring was the only one with any notable pressure during operation, however the one that wrapped around it cause interferance, if nothing else. It seemed like it was only there to make sure the main spring stayed on station. That may very well cause me some problems, as well, but the solution is fairly simple. I'll just add a lighter spring from a ball point pen.

Now, back to the totally unfair comparison to Glock. I have some thoughts on that, too. When I got my first Glock and examined it's construction, the first thing that came to mind was toylike. I've seen stronger components in toy guns, however I have no problem with simplicity, as long as it's sufficient to get the job done. Apparently, Glocks are exactly that. When I detail strip both guns, there is not a doubt in my mind as to which is the stronger, more complex design. The Sigma wins that one, hands down. However, my Glock is my SD weapon and the Sigma is not. Why, I don't really know, because my Sigma has never jamed or misfired and my Glock has. Probably just a perception of price vs quality and the reputation Glock enjoys. That said, if I'm going to the range, I'd just as soon shoot my Sigma. That's probably because I have less than half of what my Glock cost in it and don't mind wearing it out. I'm still a little torn as to which one was the better value, but it's obvious my Glock will retain it's value much better. I'm not necessarily a fan of either, but believe both have their place. I think you'll find Sigmas are much better today than they used to be. If I had experienced one of the earlier models, I suspect I'd be critical, too, because they did sound dreadful. But, I didn't and I do feel they are a fair sub $300 gun. Not for everyone, but they do fit some. Actually, that's what I like most about mine. It just feels good in my hand and a decent trigger can't do anything but help that experience.

It may very well be a Glock clone, but according to popular belief, it'll never be as good. I don't have any problem with that, as long as S&W keeps pricing it accordingly. I've looked at the M&Ps and think they're a fine gun, too, but always figured why bother and just stuck with Glock. Now, the new SD series may be a game changer that might be able to draw a bunch of us away from the old tried and true. If they turn out to be as good as preliminary indications and are priced in between, they may steal business from a lot of different lines.

 

[Will_M]

I've seen the new SD series. Not sure what to think yet. I'll have to try one.

My roommate has the 9mm version and he loves it. It's very surprisingly accurate when he shoots it. I could never get used to the super heavy pull. It doesn't seem to bother him though.


As far as yours goes, if it works for you, who cares what anyone else thinks?

 

[Hrdnox]

Took it to the range today and ran about 200 rounds through her. No problems at all. There was another guy there with one who was amazed at how smooth mine was. He asked if I'd do his and I explained he could do it himself. He was concerned about removing 2 factory springs and I told him I was, too, however I also explained I hadn't done anything that couldn't be reversed. Somehow, I doubt he'll do it, though. After cleaning mine, I decide to add a lighter spring from a ball point pen to replace one that I removed. Seems OK, but I'll have to test it to be sure. If not, I'll take it back out.

Now, back to the Glock debate, such as it is. I took my Glock 17 with me today and it jammed again. Only ran 50 rounds through it. Let's see, that's a total of 100 rounds and only 2 jams. Makes me wonder, because I really intended for the Glock to be my SD gun. Starting to think I can't trust it, however since the Sigma has now fed 1800 flawless rounds, even missing 2 factory springs, perhaps I should use it instead. Still haven't given up on the Glock, but it does have some traits I don't like. Shoots just fine, but there's a lot of powder blowback in the chamber. The spent cartridges come out covered in soot. Spent brass from the Sigma looks just like it did when it came out of the box. Not sure what that's about, because the chamber looks pristine. Maybe that's just what 20 year old guns do, but it's odd to me. None of my others do. Perhaps I should have bought a new Glock, but these experiences are making me think not. I bought the older 17 because of it's great reputation, but I'm starting to wonder if I've made a mistake. I don't have a lot of patience with jamomatics and this one is starting to exhibit that trait.

 

[Will_M]

It's strange that the Glock is malfunctioning that much.

What kind of mags are you using?

 

[Hrdnox]

That's my next step Will_M. It came with 2 quick release Glock mags. One appears to be fairly new. The other looks fairly old and ragged. Unfortunately, I failed to note which mag was in use during the first jam, but did notice it was the old one the second time. I've got to get out and shoot it some more, but plan to replace the older mag first. I haven't given up just yet. I was having ejection problems where the spent rounds were flying back in my face, so I ordered some replacement parts that corrected that problem nicely. It now stacks the spent cartridges in a neat little pile beside me. My old extractor was scuffed and ugly, so I ordered a replacement. Unfortunately, I ordered the wrong one, so I'm still using the old one until I can get the new one swapped. The business end of the old one looks just fine with very little wear, so I don't really think it's the problem, but it might be. I don't want to call the gun junk until I've covered all my bases. I do like the gun and it has enough holster wear that I don't feel I have to be particular with it, but I do need it to be dependable if I'm gonna use it for SD. I think I'll be able to get to the bottom of things, if I keep at it. Just a little disappointed since I've wanted this gun for a long time and don't feel I can trust it. I know my gun is the exception to the rule and not the norm, but I want my Glock to be the typical Glock that goes bang every time I pull the trigger. Doesn't seem like too much to ask.

 

[jbpmidas]

You should be able to find someone with a Glock 17 and try their mags. I would rather try a borrowed mag that works in their gun than buy a new mag. You may also buy a rebuild kit. I assume they sell them for Glock mags. It should replace your spring and follower. These would be the cheaper way to go. Once you find out it was a mag problem, then buy several new GLOCK mags.

 

[Rw]

I have a sigma .40, really like it. Its grip fits me very well. I havent bothered with any trigger work yet, its on the list... just not real high on the list. It really doesnt bother me. Its been very reliable as well, I put 500rds through it the first weekend i had it and had no failures of any kind. Its since had about another 600 down the pipe. It didnt get cleaned till after about 700 rds, while it was apart i polished the feed ramp and a few other parts... just out of habit more than anything.

 

[Hrdnox]

Update on mine.

I spoke with a S&W armorer today and he convinced me that I needed to replace all of the factory springs, because, in his opinion, all are absolutely necessary for more reason than one. Liability may be the biggest, but that's good enough for me. I couldn't afford the legal fees involved with unauthorized modifications to a firearm, so my Sigma will be going back to stock as soon as I receive my replacement spring, even though it will negate some of my improvements. Better safe than sorry. Shame, because even though mine will be better than it was out of the box, it'll never be as nice as I've seen it. Oh well, if I ever get that illusive engineering degree that's never coming, I might feel comfortable reengineering something like this, but for now, I'll leave that to the real engineers. Tinkerers like myself aren't engineers and should recognize their place.

 

[chuckusaret]

I bought a Sigma .40 cal in early 1994 and hated the trigger from day one. I complained to S&W, and they requested that I return the weapon to them. Long story short, the weapon was returned to them, and major improvements were made to the trigger. I have since heard that they will no longer do the trigger upgrade under warranty. I would guess the weapon has had 2k rounds down the pipe without a failure of any type. The sales of the Sigma increased dramatically earlier this year when S&W offered the $50 rebate. Bottom line S&W met it's intended goal; produce a reliable, affordable semi automatic pistol, and IMO they did.

 

[chuckusaret]

I spoke with a S&W armorer today and he convinced me that I needed to replace all of the factory springs, because, in his opinion, all are absolutely necessary for more reason than one. Liability may be the biggest, but that's good enough for me. I couldn't afford the legal fees involved with unauthorized modifications to a firearm, so my Sigma will be going back to stock as soon as I receive my replacement spring,........

Legal fees for what???????? For the replacement of one spring and eliminating one spring….

 

[swede62]

That's my next step Will_M. It came with 2 quick release Glock mags. One appears to be fairly new. The other looks fairly old and ragged. Unfortunately, I failed to note which mag was in use during the first jam, but did notice it was the old one the second time. I've got to get out and shoot it some more, but plan to replace the older mag first. I haven't given up just yet. I was having ejection problems where the spent rounds were flying back in my face, so I ordered some replacement parts that corrected that problem nicely. It now stacks the spent cartridges in a neat little pile beside me. My old extractor was scuffed and ugly, so I ordered a replacement. Unfortunately, I ordered the wrong one, so I'm still using the old one until I can get the new one swapped. The business end of the old one looks just fine with very little wear, so I don't really think it's the problem, but it might be. I don't want to call the gun junk until I've covered all my bases. I do like the gun and it has enough holster wear that I don't feel I have to be particular with it, but I do need it to be dependable if I'm gonna use it for SD. I think I'll be able to get to the bottom of things, if I keep at it. Just a little disappointed since I've wanted this gun for a long time and don't feel I can trust it. I know my gun is the exception to the rule and not the norm, but I want my Glock to be the typical Glock that goes bang every time I pull the trigger. Doesn't seem like too much to ask.

Definitely try the different mags, and on an older 17 replace the recoil spring as well. Those kind of problems are uncharacteristic of Glocks. The new incarnation of the Sigma has a much better trigger, and a useful rail too. I also costs more money for now.

 

[TankerHC]

Trigger Job on Sigma

I have a link (which I cant find at the moment) that has the address for the guy that does all warranty work for the Sigma. If you dont like the trigger, just mail it to him and he will fix all trigger issues for free and return the gun. But I checked and it would cost 80 dollars from here to Fedex the Gun. Anyone know of a cheaper way? I called and the person I talked to said to take it apart, mail it through regular mail and put machine parts on the box. I would never do something like that. Not interested in going to jail.

 

[Rw]

I just did a polish job on the trigger parts of mine, along with removing that pigtail spring. It helped, I haven't polished the inside of the sear that is where the roughness is yet. I didn't have anyway to do the inside of that yet, but I'll be doing it sometime this week.