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Deplorable Curmudgeon
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
There are 32,000 gun related deaths per year by firearms, and this number is not disputed. U.S. population 324,059,091 as of Wednesday, June 22, 2016(FBI numbers). Do the math: 0.00987% of the population dies from gun related actions each year. Statistically speaking, this is insignificant! What is never told, however, is a breakdown of those 32,000 deaths, to put them in perspective as compared to other causes of death:

65% of those deaths are by suicide which would never be prevented by gun laws

15% are by law enforcement in the line of duty and justified

17% are through criminal activity, gang and drug related or mentally ill persons – gun violence

3% are accidental discharge deaths

So technically, "gun violence" is not 32,000 annually, but drops to 5,100. Still too many?

Well, first, how are those deaths spanned across the nation?

480 homicides (9.4%) were in Chicago

344 homicides (6.7%) were in Baltimore

333 homicides (6.5%) were in Detroit

119 homicides (2.3%) were in Washington D.C. (a 54% increase over prior years)

So basically, 25% of all gun crime happens in just 4 cities. All 4 of those cities have strict gun laws, so it is not the lack of law that is the root cause.This basically leaves 3,825 for the entire rest of the nation, or about 75 deaths per state. That is an average because some States have much higher rates than others. For example, California had 1,169 and Alabama had 1.

Now, who has the strictest gun laws by far? California, of course, but understand, so it is not guns causing this. It is a crime rate spawned by the number of criminal persons residing in those cities and states. So if all cities and states are not created equally, then there must be something other than the tool causing the gun deaths.

Are 5,100 deaths per year horrific? How about in comparison to other deaths? All death is sad and especially so when it is in the commission of a crime but that is the nature of crime. Robbery, death, rape, assault all is done by criminals and thinking that criminals will obey laws is ludicrous. That's why they are criminals.

But what about other deaths each year?

40,000+ die from a drug overdose, 36,000 people die per year from the flu, far exceeding the criminal gun deaths, 34,000 people die per year in traffic fatalities(exceeding gun deaths even if you include suicide) So why NOT BAN CARS?

Now it gets good: 200,000+ people die each year (and growing) from preventable medical errors. You are safer in Chicago than when you are in a hospital! 710,000 people die per year from heart disease. It’s time to stop the double cheeseburgers! So what is the point? If the anti-gun movement focused their attention on heart disease, even a 10% decrease in cardiac deaths would save twice the number of lives annually of all gun-related deaths (including suicide, law enforcement, etc.). A 10% reduction in medical errors would be 66% of the total gun deaths or 4 times the number of criminal homicides. Simple, easily preventable 10% reductions!

So you have to ask yourself, in the grand scheme of things, why the focus on guns? It's pretty simple. Taking away guns gives control to governments. The founders of this nation knew that regardless of the form of government, those in power may become corrupt and seek to rule as the British did by trying to disarm the populace of the colonies. It is not difficult to understand that a disarmed populace is a controlled populace. Thus, the second amendment was proudly and boldly included in the U.S. Constitution. It must be preserved at all costs. So the next time someone tries to tell you that gun control is about saving lives, look at these facts and remember these words from Noah Webster: "Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword, because the whole body of the people are armed and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States. A military force at the command of Congress can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power. So please be honest here. After understanding this do you honestly believe more gun control laws will make America safer than any other control laws for any other potential risk? Be honest. Please. With support for that. Thanks.
 

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What you're talking about with this is perceived risk. Risk is more than just statistics. It's also a psychological reaction to some perceived danger that varies depending on the individual and/or the peer group beliefs and experiences.

Common risks (such as most of those you listed) that people are used to don't trigger the same reaction as risks that are uncommon - those that people are not used to. Crossing a busy street, driving, medical errors, etc. are statistically more risky but we're all used to those risks so we don't get all worked up about them. Gun risks are rare (as the data shows), and that rarity itself triggers a higher level of anxiety in many people.

Politicians and others know this and use it to their advantage.
 

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What you're talking about with this is perceived risk. Risk is more than just statistics. It's also a psychological reaction to some perceived danger that varies depending on the individual and/or the peer group beliefs and experiences.

Common risks (such as most of those you listed) that people are used to don't trigger the same reaction as risks that are uncommon - those that people are not used to. Crossing a busy street, driving, medical errors, etc. are statistically more risky but we're all used to those risks so we don't get all worked up about them. Gun risks are rare (as the data shows), and that rarity itself triggers a higher level of anxiety in many people.

Politicians and others know this and use it to their advantage.
No what it boils down to is everyone needs a car to get around in. Not everyone sees the need for a gun.

And that is why they want to ban guns and not cars. Period.
 
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Deplorable Curmudgeon
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
No what it boils down to is everyone needs a car to get around in. Not everyone sees the need for a gun.

And that is why they want to ban guns and not cars. Period.
There is that word ""NEED"
They WANT a car because it is convenient they do not ''need' a car
they can walk,ride a bike,public transportation
bottom line, they want the car because they are to freaking lazy to walk to work

simple explanation of why we as gun owners want semi auto guns.
my niece loves my Winchester 22lr semi auto,,she hates my bolt action 22
my liberal sister asked why i ''NEED" a semi auto gun.
i turned to my niece and asked
why do you like that Winchester 22 instead of the bolt 22?
she said because it is more convenient.
I told my sister. that is your answer
 

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Rational Anarchist
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1. End gun free zones.

2. Encourage all able bodied men and women to carry a firearm for their personal defense and for the protection of others, that aren’t able, such as children.

3. Never publicized the mass murderer’s name. Publish propaganda stories talking about how messed up these people are. Discuss how they all seem to have micro penises and how they molested hamsters.
 

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Premium Member
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"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."

-- Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to John Cartwright on June 5, 1824​
 

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There is that word ""NEED"
They WANT a car because it is convenient they do not ''need' a car
they can walk,ride a bike,public transportation
bottom line, they want the car because they are to freaking lazy to walk to work

simple explanation of why we as gun owners want semi auto guns.
my niece loves my Winchester 22lr semi auto,,she hates my bolt action 22
my liberal sister asked why i ''NEED" a semi auto gun.
i turned to my niece and asked
why do you like that Winchester 22 instead of the bolt 22?
she said because it is more convenient.
I told my sister. that is your answer
No I'm going to disagree with you on not needing a car. Since you have to have a car to get to work , to support and feed your family , yep you NEED a car. LMAO walk, bicycle, public transportation? Really? When is the last time you road a bike, bus, taxi or walked to work or to town to do shopping. You do realize the majority of America is made up of rural communities right?

But back to the point I was making.

It would be a huge inconvenience for everyone not to have a car.

It would be a huge inconvenience to only some to not have a firearm.
 
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Deplorable Curmudgeon
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Nodody but me* is gonna decide what I need.




*The Wife being my better half and counting as “me”. ;)

DING DING DING
WINNER WINNER
CHICKEN DINNER
 

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No I'm going to disagree with you on not needing a car. Since you have to have a car to get to work , to support and feed your family , yep you NEED a car. LMAO walk, bicycle, public transportation? Really? When is the last time you road a bike, bus, taxi or walked to work or to town to do shopping. You do realize the majority of America is made up of rural communities right?

But back to the point I was making.

It would be a huge inconvenience for everyone not to have a car.

It would be a huge inconvenience to only some to not have a firearm.
Not anymore, 80% of Americans live in urban areas, not rural areas.
 

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There are 32,000 gun related deaths per year by firearms, and this number is not disputed. U.S. population 324,059,091 as of Wednesday, June 22, 2016(FBI numbers). Do the math: 0.00987% of the population dies from gun related actions each year. Statistically speaking, this is insignificant! What is never told, however, is a breakdown of those 32,000 deaths, to put them in perspective as compared to other causes of death:

65% of those deaths are by suicide which would never be prevented by gun laws

15% are by law enforcement in the line of duty and justified

17% are through criminal activity, gang and drug related or mentally ill persons – gun violence

3% are accidental discharge deaths

So technically, "gun violence" is not 32,000 annually, but drops to 5,100. Still too many?

Well, first, how are those deaths spanned across the nation?

480 homicides (9.4%) were in Chicago

344 homicides (6.7%) were in Baltimore

333 homicides (6.5%) were in Detroit

119 homicides (2.3%) were in Washington D.C. (a 54% increase over prior years)

So basically, 25% of all gun crime happens in just 4 cities. All 4 of those cities have strict gun laws, so it is not the lack of law that is the root cause.This basically leaves 3,825 for the entire rest of the nation, or about 75 deaths per state. That is an average because some States have much higher rates than others. For example, California had 1,169 and Alabama had 1.

Now, who has the strictest gun laws by far? California, of course, but understand, so it is not guns causing this. It is a crime rate spawned by the number of criminal persons residing in those cities and states. So if all cities and states are not created equally, then there must be something other than the tool causing the gun deaths.

Are 5,100 deaths per year horrific? How about in comparison to other deaths? All death is sad and especially so when it is in the commission of a crime but that is the nature of crime. Robbery, death, rape, assault all is done by criminals and thinking that criminals will obey laws is ludicrous. That's why they are criminals.

But what about other deaths each year?

40,000+ die from a drug overdose, 36,000 people die per year from the flu, far exceeding the criminal gun deaths, 34,000 people die per year in traffic fatalities(exceeding gun deaths even if you include suicide) So why NOT BAN CARS?

Now it gets good: 200,000+ people die each year (and growing) from preventable medical errors. You are safer in Chicago than when you are in a hospital! 710,000 people die per year from heart disease. It’s time to stop the double cheeseburgers! So what is the point? If the anti-gun movement focused their attention on heart disease, even a 10% decrease in cardiac deaths would save twice the number of lives annually of all gun-related deaths (including suicide, law enforcement, etc.). A 10% reduction in medical errors would be 66% of the total gun deaths or 4 times the number of criminal homicides. Simple, easily preventable 10% reductions!

So you have to ask yourself, in the grand scheme of things, why the focus on guns? It's pretty simple. Taking away guns gives control to governments. The founders of this nation knew that regardless of the form of government, those in power may become corrupt and seek to rule as the British did by trying to disarm the populace of the colonies. It is not difficult to understand that a disarmed populace is a controlled populace. Thus, the second amendment was proudly and boldly included in the U.S. Constitution. It must be preserved at all costs. So the next time someone tries to tell you that gun control is about saving lives, look at these facts and remember these words from Noah Webster: "Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword, because the whole body of the people are armed and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States. A military force at the command of Congress can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power. So please be honest here. After understanding this do you honestly believe more gun control laws will make America safer than any other control laws for any other potential risk? Be honest. Please. With support for that. Thanks.
Close the big cities you mentioned, plus Jackson and New Orleans and your there.
 

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Deplorable Curmudgeon
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
But if you lived in a city with mass transit available you wouldn't.
I lived in Austin, And rode the bus. it smelled like piss
i just looked for parking
 

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