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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've tried to read up a good bit on this subject since aquiring my 1910 M91 Mosin. I hear alot about soapy water, mr. clean, and alot of other stuff. It all seems to come down to cleaning with something that has ammonia in it. I clean all my barrells with Montana Extreme Bore cleaner that is an ammonia based cleaner, is this sufficient for nuetralizing the corrosive salts from the ammo?
 

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Use 1/4 cup Murphy's Oil Concentrate in 1 Gallon Water. It cleans Corrosive priming and Black Powder residue better than anything I have ever used. I have been shooting BP and corrosive ammo since 1957, I have NEVER had anything work this well. If ammonia cleaned corrosive priming, Hoppe's #9 would work and it does not.

Doug Bowser
 

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Water is the real trick -- water neutralizes the salt. The other stuff aids in the cleaning and well worth it - Murphy's oil soap, etc. It is the water that is vital!!
 

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Ditto on Doug and the others´ comments: you have to dissolve the salts. Soap and water is the deal. That is why the Soviet cleaning bottles have 2 compartments, one was for soapy water and the other for oil. After you deal with salts, clean for removal of metal deposits (ie Hoppe´s or your choice) and remove the water, ie dry the parts where the corrosive salt might have deposited. So don´t forget the bolt face, firing pin - it´s easy to disassemble the bolt on an MN so do it and "wash" it. No big deal. And the corrosive ammo actually has a longer shelf life. Shoot it and enjoy! Just wash up afterwards.
 

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Hot, soapy water, hot water, dry patch, then the Hoppe's, sweets 7.62, or Eds Red.
Then oil once bore is clean.
Only water dissolves the salts; the soap is a surfactant that loosens the grime.
The Hoppe's & such loosen the burnt powder residue, while the ammonia dissolves the copper residue left behind.

I am glad you are enjoying the rifle!
 

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When you say water...how much water? Pint, quart, gallon? Approximately, of course. I have a bunch of corrosive ammo I've yet to shoot...trying to get a feel for it.
 

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shoeshooter said:
When you say water...how much water? Pint, quart, gallon? Approximately, of course. I have a bunch of corrosive ammo I've yet to shoot...trying to get a feel for it.
Just soak a patch in the warm, soapy water, followed by another.
Then just a patch soaked in plain water to follow through.
Then, use the Hoppe's afterwards.
I like to use compressed air to blow out the remaining moisture before progressing to the Hoppe's or Sweets 7.62.
 

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Even I can follow those directions, thanks. I was planning on blowing it out as well. Water and carbon steel is not a marriage made in heaven.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
oldironsights said:
Hot, soapy water, hot water, dry patch, then the Hoppe's, sweets 7.62, or Eds Red.
Then oil once bore is clean.
Only water dissolves the salts; the soap is a surfactant that loosens the grime.
The Hoppe's & such loosen the burnt powder residue, while the ammonia dissolves the copper residue left behind.

I am glad you are enjoying the rifle!
Did the hot water and soap cleanse today, then cleaned as I do my other rifles. Bore came out nice and shiny(finally)after a whole pack of patches and some good scrubbing. I'm very much enjoying the rifle oldironsights, it shoots great and is a great pleasure to shoot. Got 2" groups at 100 of the bench, and 5" group at 100 off hand (think i can get it better with a little more practice). Fixin to make an ammo purchase so i can get lots of shooting time in now that deer season's almost over. I think i've developed mosinitis, been on the search for more. Thanks everyone for the info, and thanks oldironsights for the the mosinitis.
 

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Check the bore after the Murphy's Oil Soap treatment and if the bore looks dusty, repeat the process. I have used Bulgarian 7.62x54r ammo made in 1953 in my Finnish Model 39. I have never had to repeat the process.

Doug
 

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Water is the key. Soap is a surfactant to break down the surface tension of the water. Nearly boiling hot water will dry itself quickly and as for how much, the Enfield Cleaning Funnel should tell you more than a moist patch was used back in the day.



I actually read the label on my Hoppes 9 the other day and it said it would remove the salts but I don't believe it! An excellent cleaner is USGI WWII bore cleaner, still available and works well.
 

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Add water to salt and you have salty water. Respectfully, there is nothing that "neutralizes salt. Your aim in cleaning a firearm is to flush and remove the corrosive salts from the bore and bolt.

With corrosive ammo it isn't the powder that's corrosive, it's the chlorate Berdan primer. Dissolving, diluting, and washing away these corrosive chlorite salts from spent chlorate primers is absolutely key to preventing barrel and bolt rust. Petroleum based bore cleaners like CLP will not remove the corrosive salts! Flush and rinse all affected parts with HOT water followed by your favorite lubricant and you're good to go.

You can also wet a patch in Windex, water, or Hoppes #9 and swab. Repeat this twice, brush the bore, then another patch with water or Windex, then a couple dry patches and it's ready for conventional petroleum based solvent cleaning, oiling and lubricating. My method is to simply spay it liberally down the bore until it's pouring out of the barrel and hose down the bolt face while I'm at it. I always carry baby wipes with me for cleaning my hands after shooting and I've run wet baby wipes down a hot bore when I've forgotten my Windex or Hoppes #9.

Water or ANY cleaner with a wetting agent will work, such as Fantastik, 409, Windex or the like. All of those contain butyl alcohol, aka butoxyethanol. That alcohol lowers the surface tension of water and makes it "wetter" and able to wet soiled surfaces faster and aid in removing the corrosive salts. Any alkaline component like soap or ammonia will also make the water wet out the bore faster. Residual alkalinity helps to inhibit rust during drying, too.

Cleaning a weapon after shooting corrosively-primed ammo only adds a few minutes to the normal cleaning regimen, including a water/Windex wipe down of the bolt face, bolt, feed ramp, chamber end of the barrel, inside of the receiver, and exterior muzzle end of the barrel. Those are all areas where primer salts in the form of combustion residue will be present.

I typically use Hoppes #9, Windex, or even a bottle of drinking water to pour down my hot bores to flush out the corrosive salts prior to packing up and leaving the range and a good cleaning after I'm home.

SAR magazine tested several cleaners, solvents, and methods in one of their issues about a year ago, and Hoppes was clearly one of the best. Surprisingly, WD-40 did well, but you'll never see it near my guns.
 

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Gents:

1. Boiling water is a bad idea. It will lead to flash rust. We deal with it all the time when folks new to blackpowder wash out their rifles. Tepid water is best.

2. Before cleaning normally, run a patch through the bore. The patch should be soaked with slightly soapy water (think dishwater) and followed by a patch or three soaked in regular water, then a dry patch or two. Just clean normally afterward, like I said.

3. Windex (NO ammonia) works well enough because it's a diluted soap.

4. Stay away from vinegar. While I've used it successfully, I've also used warm acetic acid to brown/antique metal, and ammonia to antique brass (bleach works well for this as well; just don't mix 'em! The resulting gas is actually a type of poison gas used in WWI).

5. The salts don't corrode the barrel. They are hygroscopic; that is, they attract water and water rusts the barrel. Same as living near the ocean.

Hope this has helped some, and maybe dispelled some myths. It's a bit of a sore spot with me because, when I got my first MN, people had me cleaning it more than I later learned to clean black powder arms! I've seen more guns cleaned to death than shot to death, and when a barrel's life is measured in seconds... well, every little bit helps.

Regards,

Josh
 

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PhillipM said:
The old books recommended flushing it out again in a couple days because more residue would leech out of microscopic cracks.
A BIG +1 here.................

And if you just don't have the time to clean "good" that day...... swab the bore & bolt HEAVY with Hoppes or some other OIL base product. Then clean GOOD as soon as you can.

.
 

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Last time out with my m44 i just flushed the barrel real well with non chlorinated brake cleaner(automotive). I decided to leave it as the only method that time out, so far no signs of any rust/corrosion or any discoloration at all... thats been about 2 months i think. I shot about 20 rounds of 80's russian surplus that day.
 

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Rw said:
Last time out with my m44 i just flushed the barrel real well with non chlorinated brake cleaner(automotive). I decided to leave it as the only method that time out, so far no signs of any rust/corrosion or any discoloration at all... thats been about 2 months i think. I shot about 20 rounds of 80's russian surplus that day.
Come up with a small piece of bare steel, remove primer and bullet and shoot it about an inch away from the muzzle with just the primer. After a few days if the the area you fired is rustier than the rest of the steel, it's corrosive.
 
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