CrimsonTrace Laser Grips
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Own a set for my Beretta 92. At first I loved the novility of them .. however that has somewhat worn off ... they work fine but do not expect a percision instrument!! After about a year, the laser has started to fade a little ... and you have to make sure you keep the lens clean - not very easy to do on some models ...
They seemed to live up to what is advertised ... Just a lot of $$s for not much use ... MY :2c:
They seemed to live up to what is advertised ... Just a lot of $$s for not much use ... MY :2c:
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11,518 Posts
I have them on a Glock and a Taurus 85T revolver.
I like them. For sure, you will not drive any tacks using a CT laser (due to the slight offset from the bore), but it will do just fine on a man-size target at 25 feet.
And they are visible in daylight way farther---not sure how far because I never measured it.
But soon the iron sight guys will chime in and tell you how bad anyone is who uses anything with a battery or lens.
To each his own.
I like them. For sure, you will not drive any tacks using a CT laser (due to the slight offset from the bore), but it will do just fine on a man-size target at 25 feet.
And they are visible in daylight way farther---not sure how far because I never measured it.
But soon the iron sight guys will chime in and tell you how bad anyone is who uses anything with a battery or lens.
To each his own.
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3,424 Posts
I shoot 40 to 50 thousand rounds a year training students and in matches. Lasers can not take the place of proper stance, grip, sight picture and trigger control.
I've done alot lot of side by side test....lasers are....hmm....fun to play with, that's about it.
To each his own.
I've done alot lot of side by side test....lasers are....hmm....fun to play with, that's about it.
To each his own.
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1,628 Posts
I have them on two of my 1911's. one is kept on the bedside table. I think probably the best use for them, besides driving the cats crazy, is dry fire drills. That little red dot will quickly let you know if you are pulling or jerking the trigger any at all.
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441 Posts
It's a tool. Just like anything else. I'd agree with what Cliff Cargill said, but lasers do have their place in my opinion. I've used them, a lot. Both Crimson Trace and Lasermax. It's a quick, on point, kinda thing. They are not super accurate. With the ones I've played with, up close work is good, but distance shots get tricky. But, at 1 am in the morning when someone just kicked in your door and the security alarm is going off and the heart rate is racing, the beam is a GOOD thing.
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3,424 Posts
With all due respect to those who have posted...there's only one way to find out what works...bring it to the range and let's compete, side-by-side...
Let's put some money on the line and see what happens.
I'll roll with any takers.
Let's put some money on the line and see what happens.
I'll roll with any takers.
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11,518 Posts
With all due respect, range use is not the only time and situation one might have to use a gun.
I agree that practice, practice, practice is the best preparation for being awaken in the middle of the night with a crash at your front door.
But not everybody has time, place, money or desire to do all that practicing.
In the absence of those developed skills/habits (or in addition to those skills/habits), the use of other things such as laser sights, good flashlights, burglar alarms, door locks, dogs, and such should not be dismissed.
Accuracy at the range is good, but it's not the ONLY consideration.
These laser vs iron sight debates are as useless as the 9-mm vs .45 debates.
I agree that practice, practice, practice is the best preparation for being awaken in the middle of the night with a crash at your front door.
But not everybody has time, place, money or desire to do all that practicing.
In the absence of those developed skills/habits (or in addition to those skills/habits), the use of other things such as laser sights, good flashlights, burglar alarms, door locks, dogs, and such should not be dismissed.
Accuracy at the range is good, but it's not the ONLY consideration.
These laser vs iron sight debates are as useless as the 9-mm vs .45 debates.
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1,638 Posts
I agree this debate could go on and on for eternity. Guns, and weapons for that matter are a personal. Everyone has opinions which is better and why. I am sure if someone put thousands of dollars and many hours practicing they could be a successful quail hunter with a single shot .22. BUT WHY?!? I am sure many of us feel that any intuder/threat to life could be neutralized with one well placed bullet, but we tend to cary a spare. I am all for using any and all means that put the odds in my favor. There are many stats that can be found on the psycological effects of using a laser beam to de-escalate the severity of a given situation much in the same way as looking down the barrel of a .44 mag. This stems mainly from the glorified hollywood movies, but it does work in our society. May keep you outta court and save your a$$ without firing a shot. As for the aiming under stress, confidence in the equipment at hand goes a long way to self preservation.
I personally would prefer a laser on my sidearm.my :2c: If I am unable to get in the correct stance, have to shoot from cover, shoot weak handed, pass a weapon over to my partner (that I am trusting my life to) when I am unsure of their shooting ability or any other real life situation that occurs when SHTF I would feel more confident .
On the other hand with 20-30 THOUSANDS of rounds to blow in a year I may feel differently. Anyone wanna donate the ammo? I may can be persuaded.
I personally would prefer a laser on my sidearm.my :2c: If I am unable to get in the correct stance, have to shoot from cover, shoot weak handed, pass a weapon over to my partner (that I am trusting my life to) when I am unsure of their shooting ability or any other real life situation that occurs when SHTF I would feel more confident .
On the other hand with 20-30 THOUSANDS of rounds to blow in a year I may feel differently. Anyone wanna donate the ammo? I may can be persuaded.
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1,628 Posts
Cliff, i think your reputation may precede you , i doubt you will find any taker on that offer. Your skill level is way higher than most on here.
I think a more suitable test would be with a couple of novice shooters shootting the same gun with and without the use of the laser. That way we would know to what degree the laser was beneficial or if it wasnt.
I suspect you would be able to take a beater pistol of most any design and out shoot most of us even if we were shooting one of your comp guns. Your skill level is just too great an obstacle to overcome.
Your level of skill makes a laser useless to you, however for the vast majority of other shooters it can be a benefit.
I think a more suitable test would be with a couple of novice shooters shootting the same gun with and without the use of the laser. That way we would know to what degree the laser was beneficial or if it wasnt.
I suspect you would be able to take a beater pistol of most any design and out shoot most of us even if we were shooting one of your comp guns. Your skill level is just too great an obstacle to overcome.
Your level of skill makes a laser useless to you, however for the vast majority of other shooters it can be a benefit.
From what I have seen and read, lasers are a benefit to people who own a firearm and are not very well versed or proficient in its use. A lot of people think that owning a firearm makes them a shooter. Owning a piano doesn't make you a pianist, ditto with firearms ownership making you a shooter. Shooters are way too fast for lasers. Shooters have gotten so far beyond a target/plate before the bullet gets there, that if they miss, they have normally taken a second shot and are moving to the 3rd target/plate at a distance of 12-15 yards before they realize the plate did not go down. That's why you see more experienced shooters make up a plate at the end, versus new shooters having the time between splits to realize it was a miss and re-engage. If the shot is off, they usually have called the shot, but due to the speed, they pick it up after continuing to clean the plate rack. Inside of 7 yards, where most gunfights occur, you had BETTER get off the X and put as many rounds on target as quickly as possible. A burst to the upper chest followed by a burst to the head. People think combat shooting and target competition shooting is the same, it is not. Shooting targets is not like defending yourself from someone who is enraged and amped up on adrenaline, alcohol, and/or narcotics. Stroll through your local gym about 5 AM and see the men and women lifting and consider what it would take to stop a threat in that physical condition. That is one of the reasons why the Israeli Police teach only headshots with a handgun.
Competition shooting prepares one in shooting a target extremely fast and is a huge part of the skills needed. Mindset to survive and prevail is also a large part. When I trained with Jim Cirillo in 1998, he said then that police officers who were hunters and competition shooters where most likely to survive a violent lethal force encounter. They knew what it took to kill an animal and they had the skills to shoot accurately under stress. I watch new shooters shaking on the line when I run them, just as I did when i started. Now, I don't mind being first, because I have the confidence to know what I am about to do.
A shot to the heart leaves a person conscious for 15-45 seconds, time enough for most shooters in Production with 10 rounds per magazine to shoot a long course of fire. We shot 3 strings of fire, 15 rounds from 3 different positions just Sunday, quickest shooters shot each 15 round string in 14-15 seconds, at 270 pounds I shot it in 18-19 seconds. And we sprinted almost 25 yards total distance.
The laser will benefit those who do not have the skillset that a true competition shooter has, but in the hands of a shooter, the laser will never be seen until after a deadly threat is neutralized.
Competition shooting prepares one in shooting a target extremely fast and is a huge part of the skills needed. Mindset to survive and prevail is also a large part. When I trained with Jim Cirillo in 1998, he said then that police officers who were hunters and competition shooters where most likely to survive a violent lethal force encounter. They knew what it took to kill an animal and they had the skills to shoot accurately under stress. I watch new shooters shaking on the line when I run them, just as I did when i started. Now, I don't mind being first, because I have the confidence to know what I am about to do.
A shot to the heart leaves a person conscious for 15-45 seconds, time enough for most shooters in Production with 10 rounds per magazine to shoot a long course of fire. We shot 3 strings of fire, 15 rounds from 3 different positions just Sunday, quickest shooters shot each 15 round string in 14-15 seconds, at 270 pounds I shot it in 18-19 seconds. And we sprinted almost 25 yards total distance.
The laser will benefit those who do not have the skillset that a true competition shooter has, but in the hands of a shooter, the laser will never be seen until after a deadly threat is neutralized.
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3,424 Posts
I agree with Scott & ftsibley. In the hands of someone that knows little or nothing about guns, a laser could help. In the hands of an experienced shooter, they're of little value.
No gadget replaces the basics, though:
Stance
Grip
Sight Picture
Trigger Control
It may give some a warm, fuzzy feeling, but why not just learn to shoot?
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I can take a novice and have them way beyond the laser in just a few hours.
As I said, I've done side-by-side test with lasers -vs- iron sights. There's just no contest between the two.
No gadget replaces the basics, though:
Stance
Grip
Sight Picture
Trigger Control
It may give some a warm, fuzzy feeling, but why not just learn to shoot?
I can take a novice and have them way beyond the laser in just a few hours.
As I said, I've done side-by-side test with lasers -vs- iron sights. There's just no contest between the two.
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