Mississippi Gun Owners banner
41 - 60 of 62 Posts

·
μολὼν λαβέ
Joined
·
38,774 Posts
I had a faxon in x39, don’t remember bore size but it shot the cheap stuff well and still does according to chknman
Thats because .308.
 

·
Registered
Daisy Pal, Daisy Red Ryder
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter · #42 ·
That depends on who you buy the barrel from. Allot of them have went to sizing the barrels to .308. And no your not going to blow your barrel up if you have a .308 bore and shoot the commie stuff. Yes it will slightly increase pressure but not enough to blow you up.And shooting the .308 bullets in the .310/.311 barrels isn't going to hurt much as most of those aren't really .310/.311 but all its going to do is knock off a little accuracy.

If I remember right Faxon is one of the companies that size there bores .308.
I have a few old Norinco Chineeeese steel case that had the factory commie bullet pulled and a .308 plastic tip put in- that was in the mid 90’s? Don’t remember what bullet it was, just that it was a .308 green polymer tip. Never shot any of it thru an AR, but I have shot it thru a norinco AK and it was good enough to drop a flop eared nanny at about 70 yards.
Still got 10-15 rounds of the stuff.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,541 Posts
Another reason I went with 300BO ( I have an AR and a bolt gun) is the 7.62x39 was known for feeding issues in Ar's and the clips were bigger and shaped like a banana. I saw a youtube video where a guy was pulling bullets on the cheap 7.62 super sonic ammo and removing some powder and reseating the bullet to make subsonic rounds. Not sure that is safe to do but it was working for him supposedly.
Feeding issues have been solved for a while now. Not sure about the pulled and dumped powder for subsonic ammo. I mean it should work but not sure about cycling etc.
While 7.62x39 is similar when comparing supers and subs, finding sub ammo is often hard. From a reloading perspective, most of your x39 ammo is steel and while reloadable brass is available it's not as available as 5.56/.223 brass and certainly not as cheap. It's easier to find .308 bullets than it is .310/.311 diameter rounds and while the 7.62x39 can be loaded on .308 diameter rounds it's often not advised. Now... not having a dog in that race and never having tried that myself I can't say whether or not it's an accident waiting to happen or not but the above mentioned components are still not as easy to source.

The biggest advantage is if you are using the AR platform you don't have to do much work to get that similar level of performance. Plus don't have to use proprietary lowers and/or magazines potentially and that's a huge plus. I don't know if .300 Blackout was ever a "hog hunting" cartridge, but that's I guess who got sold on it? I've seen it in use in both sub and supers for hunting and if the shot is well placed, it doesn't seem to be an issue. In most AR's even with proper subs, it's still loud enough to spook game after the first shot. Some bolt actions are a bit quieter but even still operating the bolt would cause them to split. However I do know people who hunt coyotes and hogs with .300 Blackout and they swear by it.

Factory ammunition is expensive right now though. It was starting to come down a bit pre-COVID but the sudden strain on resources has caused it to jump exponentially. If the goal is to use sub sonics, while better calibers exist for the purpose in terms of raw potential the .300 Blackout's main selling point is the ease of availability of components to reloaders and it still has somewhat of an edge there. Calibers like 6.8 SPC and 6.5 Grendel both have edges on super and sub sonic performance but sourcing components is a bit harder. The Russians have the 9x39 which is become available here in the US now which necks up 7.62x39 to a 9mm projectile and is supposed to be great for 100 yards or closer kind of work but there's so little data on it in the US to really say.

I think it's a good round and of the potential AR-15 caliber conversions it's one of the better ones if you're seeking something with a bit more energy than 5.56 for super performance and certainly easier for suppressing than 5.56 is. It is comparable to x39 in terms of performance but is a much smoother conversion for AR's. The round has plenty of merit still but is definitely harder to source factory ammo for right now. The good news is that the upper will be sitting on an AR, so if you don't like it or get tired of it, you can simply pop that upper off and put something else on there that you find more desirable. There's no shortage of cartridges for the AR platform like that.
How is it not advised to load 308 bullets in a 7.62x39 when they often send the does with 308 sizers included. Many of the American made barrels are actually designed for .308 bullets. Check out the mini30 from Ruger it has a .308 barrel and shoots .310 steel cases stuff with no issues. 300bs is an improvement over 556 but that’s about it. It doesn’t match 7.62x39 and comes nowhere close to actual 30/30 performance as it is often touted. It will kill animals but so will a 556 and a 22lr, but as several have said the performance when you want to find your animal is lacking somewhat. Seen too many animals run off, same with 7.62x40wt which has a few hundred fps more on the BS, and performs better. As far as the hog hunting round it most definitely was portrayed early on by many as the ultimate hog round. Many hog hunters have left it after lack luster performance since they get paid by the hog they need to find them.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,193 Posts
Feeding issues have been solved for a while now. Not sure about the pulled and dumped powder for subsonic ammo. I mean it should work but not sure about cycling etc.

How is it not advised to load 308 bullets in a 7.62x39 when they often send the does with 308 sizers included. Many of the American made barrels are actually designed for .308 bullets. Check out the mini30 from Ruger it has a .308 barrel and shoots .310 steel cases stuff with no issues. 300bs is an improvement over 556 but that’s about it. It doesn’t match 7.62x39 and comes nowhere close to actual 30/30 performance as it is often touted. It will kill animals but so will a 556 and a 22lr, but as several have said the performance when you want to find your animal is lacking somewhat. Seen too many animals run off, same with 7.62x40wt which has a few hundred fps more on the BS, and performs better. As far as the hog hunting round it most definitely was portrayed early on by many as the ultimate hog round. Many hog hunters have left it after lack luster performance since they get paid by the hog they need to find them.
Hogs………4.5.8
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,193 Posts
and all this time I've been doing it wrong. I thought you was supposed to go to the county line beer joint to hunt hogs..
Go there in a loincloth or a banana hammock you’ll probably succeed! 😂
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
599 Posts
How is it not advised to load 308 bullets in a 7.62x39 when they often send the does with 308 sizers included. Many of the American made barrels are actually designed for .308 bullets. Check out the mini30 from Ruger it has a .308 barrel and shoots .310 steel cases stuff with no issues. 300bs is an improvement over 556 but that’s about it. It doesn’t match 7.62x39 and comes nowhere close to actual 30/30 performance as it is often touted. It will kill animals but so will a 556 and a 22lr, but as several have said the performance when you want to find your animal is lacking somewhat. Seen too many animals run off, same with 7.62x40wt which has a few hundred fps more on the BS, and performs better. As far as the hog hunting round it most definitely was portrayed early on by many as the ultimate hog round. Many hog hunters have left it after lack luster performance since they get paid by the hog they need to find them.
I had a Mini-30 it was a .310 bore. While .300 Blackout doesn't match 7.62x39 it's awful close with similar weights to a point that the minor differences in velocity often won't translate to a different effect on target but numbers are nearly the same. I've never heard .300 Blackout touted as close to .30-30 though I have heard that claim about 7.62x39. And often the SKS was touted as the "poor man's .30-30" and even it doesn't mimic .30-30 but a well placed shot has no trouble putting down deer or hogs just like .300 Blackout. I have heard people say it's lacking but I also think they have some magically high expectations of what it will do or can do. I've gone on hunts with .410's and .30 Carbine where people routinely said it was ineffective or wouldn't be enough and I never found them to be lacking as long as my placement was where it was needed. Could I safely say that if I used something like my .450 BM that it would be a noticeable difference on effect? Sure but that doesn't need to be said to know that.

I also recall several other rounds that were touted as "The ultimate hog round" but they faded away too. Not because they were bad, but because fads die eventually and people move on. Now it's all about 6mm ARC or whatever the latest craze of ammo is that nobody can find. I don't think it detracts from some of the merits .300 Blackout has in short barrel performance and in particular with a suppressor but everyone will have their own thoughts on that one I'm sure. Like I said before, I don't have a dog in that race but that's what my experience and research has led me to.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,541 Posts
I had a Mini-30 it was a .310 bore. While .300 Blackout doesn't match 7.62x39 it's awful close with similar weights to a point that the minor differences in velocity often won't translate to a different effect on target but numbers are nearly the same. I've never heard .300 Blackout touted as close to .30-30 though I have heard that claim about 7.62x39. And often the SKS was touted as the "poor man's .30-30" and even it doesn't mimic .30-30 but a well placed shot has no trouble putting down deer or hogs just like .300 Blackout. I have heard people say it's lacking but I also think they have some magically high expectations of what it will do or can do. I've gone on hunts with .410's and .30 Carbine where people routinely said it was ineffective or wouldn't be enough and I never found them to be lacking as long as my placement was where it was needed. Could I safely say that if I used something like my .450 BM that it would be a noticeable difference on effect? Sure but that doesn't need to be said to know that.

I also recall several other rounds that were touted as "The ultimate hog round" but they faded away too. Not because they were bad, but because fads die eventually and people move on. Now it's all about 6mm ARC or whatever the latest craze of ammo is that nobody can find. I don't think it detracts from some of the merits .300 Blackout has in short barrel performance and in particular with a suppressor but everyone will have their own thoughts on that one I'm sure. Like I said before, I don't have a dog in that race but that's what my experience and research has led me to.
The earlier mini 30's had 308 bores but had long throats to compensate for that, but in the mid 90's they changed to 310 bores.
It seemed like every gun shop out there talked about a 300BS being a semi auto 30/30. Sorry you missed it but that's where the 300BS acronym came from. I agree the 7.62 doesn't equal it either but it has 150-200fps advantage over the BS with the cheapest rifle ammo available and comes closer to it than the 300. As i said before a 22lr, with a well placed shot, will kill most anything, but that doesn't make it a great round for the job. While deer hunting you can place shots precisely, when it comes to stalking sounders of hogs, you may get one well placed shot and 10-15 that are at running animals. No one is looking for a round that hits guts to flip the hog but a shot thru the boiler room having enough shock to actually stop the animal other than the permanent wound itself is fairly desirable. Here are some excerpts you may find interesting. Link below for more

"The reason why game animals drop instantly with chest shots that do not directly strike the CNS, is due to hydrostatic shock transfer to the spine which passes through to the brain. A high velocity cartridge well matched to game body weights imparts over half its energy within the first 2cm of penetration, creating a shock wave. This electrical shock wave travels outwards via the rib cage until it reaches the spine and then continues through to the brain (CNS). The result is an immediate loss of consciousness as the body shuts down for diagnostics.

Along with the loss of consciousness, the projectile has also created a large wound channel, draining all of the body’s blood within several seconds. The loss of blood and damage to vital organs cause death to the animal before it has the chance to regain consciousness. This action creates the illusion that the projectile has knocked its victim to the ground, killing it instantly. More careful examination shows that the shot caused coma, followed by blood loss, followed by death. The hydrostatic shock created by a hunting bullet is identical in action to when a boxer is struck on the jaw by his opponent, disrupting the functions of the brain with a resulting loss of consciousness.

The Stasborg tests also revealed that a large wound cavity can cause a blood pressure spike to the brain, inducing immediate coma, though this is relative to hydraulic shock, not hydrostatic shock as described here. This phenomenon also helps produce ethical killing.

Velocity
This has the greatest effect on hydrostatic shock. Put simply, the higher the impact velocity, the greater the shock. Velocity is also the most influencing factor in hydraulic shock, having a huge bearing on the size of the internal wound channel.

Hydrostatic shock, in bore sizes from .243” up to .338”, begins to lesson at impact velocities below 2600fps and most modern high velocity sporting cartridges including the magnums gradually lose shocking power beyond 300 to 350 yards. Of the thousands of animals harvested during TBR tests, 2600fps has been the most common cut off point with repeatable results (reactions) occurring when deliberately testing the impact velocity of 2650fps versus the impact velocity of 2550fps."

That being said the 30 cal 125gr bullet at a velocity of 2,200fps with a would have substantially less shock than the same size bullet at 2,400 fps. Now bullet construction and several other things play a factor as well but since both are or can be 308 cal, velocity is only real difference here. If pistols are what we want to compare a 300 in a 8.5 in barrel is 1900fps with 125gr where the 7.62 is 2050 so still ahead even with short barrels. We can also compare short barrel performance of other rounds as well if you would like.

The round had some major marketing just like the Grendel, 22nosler, 350Legend, 450B and 6.5C but unlike some of the others, there's really nothing special or ground breaking about it. Its outclassed by rounds such as 6.5, 6.8, 7.62x39, and 300Ham 'r etc. Its main claim to fame is more knockdown than a 556, wow it beats the smallest of all rounds mentioned here. It does good at quiet work and thats really the only reason i see for it, but the OP has a 7.62x39 and they make cycling subsonic ammo for it so that pretty much equals the 300bo main advantage to other rounds. Before you say its quieter, a 220gr 308 bullet at 1050fps is the same out of a 300bo, 7.62x39 or 308win when all else is equal. The size of the case really doesnt matter. Here is some more research for you. They used to say tout the commonality of parts with 556. They even said it took the same mags, while that is true, they didnt work for all projectiles, hence why they make specific 300bo mags now. So the only real commonality is it uses 223 bolt, but so does the 350 Legend, 300Ham'r, and 22Nosler. If you want some knockdown with sub sonic loads and a 556 bolt, I'd go 350Legend for that, as it has roughly 50% more energy with subs. It is also substantially more energy with supers as well. If you want supersonic performance with the flatter trajectory of a 30 cal, and 556 bolt, go with 300Ham'r as its 125gr at 2520fps vs the 2200 of the BO with a 450ftlb more energy as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
599 Posts
By all accounts I do believe other cartridges are better. I simply just don't believe it's as bad as people say it is. Granted, my experience with it is probably limited compared to others but I also have to keep in mind it's original purpose too. One of my co-workers I think summed up .300 Blackout well in his analysis of it.

He said "If you look at .300 Blackout as a plinking round, it's damned expensive and offers little over competitive options. But if you look at it as a hunting or defensive caliber which it does well for both purposes it's costs fit right in line with other products particularly when used in short barrels". Now, it's main claim I always heard was how great it was suppressed, but the trouble with most factory subsonics upon market release were they didn't reliably expand if it all in JHP/JSP designs. Of course, a reloader could solve that issue but then again that holds true to nearly all calibers I'd say.

I think if you keep in mind the parameters that first and foremost it was designed as a round intended for replacement of 5.56 in short barrels and run suppressed it excels in that realm of a close quarters defensive carbine even more so than submachine guns or SBR'd pistol caliber carbines in terms of overall performance. As a hunting round, I know it can do the job but much like how 6.5 Creedmoor was marketed for hunting it's certainly not the greatest round for the purpose nor was it designed for it. So it seems people lose sight of what it was intended to do. Overall it can use most projectiles without the need for specialized magazines so it has that small advantage of if you need to convert for a better round for up close that doesn't have too much recoil and doesn't compromise capacity, it works out nicely.

I guess the best way to look at it from my point of view is it's not a bad round when looked at in a broad sense but if you're going for anything majorly specific better exists on nearly every corner of the market. As new technology has helped with the reliability of x39's in AR's as well as companies like CMMG and PSA making lowers that take AK magazines it's more viable than ever. But to somebody who builds AR's as a hobby I see no reason for them not to give it a shot. Personally I too think .350 Legend is a better round and overall for most the purpose that .300 Blackout gets touted for it is a better round for other than short barrel ballistics from some numbers I've seen though I'm confident a good SBR load could be worked up given the wide range of projectiles it has at it's disposal.
 

·
μολὼν λαβέ
Joined
·
38,774 Posts
Well with the velocities it offers out of a 7.5-8.5 inch barrel most commonly used for sub work, I think I'd just go with a handgun caliber preferably the 45 acp. And now I'm not saying it is the same as the 45 but IMO just a better tool for sub work and CQC.

And hate to dispel your thoughts of being to work up some nice SBR ballistics with the 300 because of the wide range of projectiles, you need to look at the ballistics from Quickload.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Redlick83

·
Registered
Joined
·
599 Posts
Well with the velocities it offers out of a 7.5-8.5 inch barrel most commonly used for sub work, I think I'd just go with a handgun caliber preferably the 45 acp. And now I'm not saying it is the same as the 45 but IMO just a better tool for sub work and CQC.

And hate to dispel your thoughts of being to work up some nice SBR ballistics with the 300 because of the wide range of projectiles, you need to look at the ballistics from Quickload.
I was referring to a good SBR load for .350 Legend. .300 Blackout has already proven it has good SBR loads with subs.
 

·
μολὼν λαβέ
Joined
·
38,774 Posts
I was referring to a good SBR load for .350 Legend. .300 Blackout has already proven it has good SBR loads with subs.
So what SBR loads? Are you talking subsonic loads or supersonic loads?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
599 Posts
So what SBR loads? Are you talking subsonic loads or supersonic loads?
Either, from what I've seen of the cartridge if loading to potential it would suffer greatly going to a short barrel in terms of velocity and energy. But given the wide range of bullets available at it's disposal I'm sure something can be worked up for it that's quite effective.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,541 Posts
Either, from what I've seen of the cartridge if loading to potential it would suffer greatly going to a short barrel in terms of velocity and energy. But given the wide range of bullets available at it's disposal I'm sure something can be worked up for it that's quite effective.

They are getting 1900fps with 7" barrel and 145gr bullets and 2260fps with a16" barrel

Where the 300bo is getting 1700 with a 7.5' and 150 and 1854fps with 16"

Not as efficient no but it still has more power than 300bo and punches a bigger hole. Not to mention its legal to hunt with in some states where 300BO isnt
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
599 Posts
I knew it was better in longer barrels but never saw much short barreled data. Truly reminds me of the old .351 WSL cartridge just utilizing .355 to .358 diameter rounds instead of .351's. It's probably one of the newer cartridge I've followed with great interest as it has so much good potential and has been taking off pretty well in spite of the pandemic.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,541 Posts
I knew it was better in longer barrels but never saw much short barreled data. Truly reminds me of the old .351 WSL cartridge just utilizing .355 to .358 diameter rounds instead of .351's. It's probably one of the newer cartridge I've followed with great interest as it has so much good potential and has been taking off pretty well in spite of the pandemic.
It was pretty much a standardization of the 357MAX AR just a smidge longer case. I almost built one a few months before this came out. I have been watching it as well, as it should be a good medium bore round for the AR.
 
41 - 60 of 62 Posts
Top