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FBI as Captain Obvious

Discussion in 'General Firearms Discussion' started by GunnyGene, May 10, 2016.

  1. GunnyGene

    GunnyGene Distinguished Poster

  2. sand_man

    sand_man Grouchy Old Fart MSGO Supporter

    9mm outdoing the 45???? I know some people here who consider them fighting words!
     

  3. Stryker6

    Stryker6 Distinguished Poster

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  4. rigrat

    rigrat Semper Fi

    Well its superior to or equal to the 40 and the 45. I can finally dump everything dealing with the 40 or 45 and get only 9mm for k now on..........:warning:


    Funny that so many people put stock in what the FBI wants or says as they clearly make things go the way they want them to. They have switched calibers over the years going and coming seems like. I never understood that from what I've seen all the new technologies have been applied to all of the calibers just not the 9mm. So to me its hard to accept that only the 9mm has benefitted form the new bullet technology. JMO

    FBI 9MM Justification

    FBI Training Division: FBI Academy, Quantico, VA

    Executive Summary of Justification for Law Enforcement Partners

    · Caliber debates have existed in law enforcement for decades

    · Most of what is “common knowledge” with ammunition and its effects on the human target are rooted in myth and folklore

    · Projectiles are what ultimately wound our adversaries and the projectile needs to be the basis for the discussion on what “caliber” is best

    · In all the major law enforcement calibers there exist projectiles which have a high likelihood of failing LEO’s in a shooting incident and there are projectiles which have a high ting incident likelihood of succeeding for LEOs in a shooting incident

    · Handgun stopping power is simply a myth

    · The single most important factor in effectively wounding a human target is to have penetration to a scientifically valid depth (FBI uses 12” – 18”)

    · LEOs miss between 70 – 80 percent of the shots fired during a shooting incident

    · Contemporary projectiles (since 2007) have dramatically increased the terminal effectiveness of many premium line law enforcement projectiles (emphasis on the 9mm Luger offerings)

    · 9mm Luger now offers select projectiles which are, under identical testing conditions, I outperforming most of the premium line .40 S&W and .45 Auto projectiles tested by the FBI

    · 9mm Luger offers higher magazine capacities, less recoil, lower cost (both in ammunition and wear on the weapons) and higher functional reliability rates (in FBI weapons)

    · The majority of FBI shooters are both FASTER in shot strings fired and more ACCURATE with shooting a 9mm Luger vs shooting a .40 S&W (similar sized weapons)

    · There is little to no noticeable difference in the wound tracks between premium line law Auto enforcement projectiles from 9mm Luger through the .45 Auto

    · Given contemporary bullet construction, LEO’s can field (with proper bullet selection) 9mm Lugers with all of the terminal performance potential of any other law enforcement pistol caliber with none of the disadvantages present with the “larger” calibers
     
    CajunBP likes this.
  5. GunnyGene

    GunnyGene Distinguished Poster

    Rigrat, you're right. I got the impression from the article that the FBI is just following the herd. Most of us (including me) have a wide variety of firearms, both long guns and hand guns, and experience with a similar wide array of ammo for them. We typically know what the terminal ballistics of everything we shoot are. In my case, I know a .41mag hitting a target at common SD range will do a great deal more damage than a 9mm or .40/45 at the same range. But big ass Ruger revolvers are not PC.

    Personally, I think the FBI has bought into the same politically correct BS as the military - gotta have a service weapon that is comfy for the gals and limp wrist wimps. :rolleyes:
     
  6. sand_man

    sand_man Grouchy Old Fart MSGO Supporter

    I admit to carrying a 38 but also a 44! You guess the day!
     
  7. Quickeye

    Quickeye Vietnam & Persian Gulf Wars MSGO Supporter

    Seeking to adjust firepower to fit the lowest common denominator, is just lowering the standard , and weakening the entire team.
     
    SLBcmtr, maxhush, CajunBP and 4 others like this.
  8. sand_man

    sand_man Grouchy Old Fart MSGO Supporter

    Woosification of America!!!
     
  9. rigrat

    rigrat Semper Fi

    Gunny think you are right they are just trying to accommodate everyone instead of having the people meet the standard they are lowering the standard for those that can't pass. I think that all bullets being created equal the 40 and the 45 would definitely out perform the 9mm.
    I use the 9mm and like it and carry it. But I'm under know illusion that it is greater than the 40 or the 45.
     
    I'm a Rebel and para40 like this.
  10. para40

    para40 Sr. Curmudgeon MSGO Supporter

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    This, this,and this.
     
  11. rigrat

    rigrat Semper Fi

    Sandman I carry the 38 right smart and have confidence in it to do the job. Now on the other hand with the 44 special and the big ole HP's they can use make it a very nice choice. Basically a 45acp ballistics in a revolver.
     
    I'm a Rebel likes this.
  12. I'm a Rebel

    I'm a Rebel Distinguished Poster MSGO Supporter

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    :bs:
     
  13. I'm a Rebel

    I'm a Rebel Distinguished Poster MSGO Supporter

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    Yeah that!
     
  14. Stryker6

    Stryker6 Distinguished Poster

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    It's happening to today's generation at an early age.....can't pass, not a problem we will dumb it down for you, can't make the team, not a problem we will make it easier for you so everyone get's to play, can't find a job, not a problem you don't need one, we will take care of you by taxing those who will work.
     
  15. stewbaby

    stewbaby Distinguished Poster MSGO Supporter

    I thought they learn this lesson the hard way 30 years ago in the Miami Shootout...
     
  16. para40

    para40 Sr. Curmudgeon MSGO Supporter

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    My 1st thought, but then that was before PC.
     
  17. rigrat

    rigrat Semper Fi

    Awe but wasn't the Miami deal them using 38's? We all know that the 9mm are far stronger than the 38's.
     
    Jarhead5811, I'm a Rebel and Stryker6 like this.
  18. Stryker6

    Stryker6 Distinguished Poster

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    357's loaded with a 38 round. Most agents opted to use the 158gr +P 38 round instead of the 145gr 357 magnum round.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2016
  19. I'm a Rebel

    I'm a Rebel Distinguished Poster MSGO Supporter

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  20. 45flattop

    45flattop Distinguished Poster

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    My mother's younger sister was married to a career FBI agent who retired as
    SAC(Special Agent in Charge) of the Jacksonville FL field office and he often
    remarked to family that the Bureau was so political from the beginning that it
    almost made him ashamed to do the higher up's bidding, for example Hoover
    was probably a cross dressing oddball who had way too many confidential files
    on people from every walk of life. The only redeeming trait he apparently had
    was that he wasn't a leftist traitor at the beck and call of the White House; he
    knew way too much about every POTUS since FDR to be susceptible to pressure.
    Then he died and the bureau has been rotten to the core ever since, they're just
    Obamination's secret police so don't expect any better, they sure aren't going
    to recommend the DOJ indict Hildebeast, never kid yourself that is happening.