Feedback Thread 1-29-2011 22F-Class Shoot

4346 Views 79 Replies 18 Participants Last post by jbpmidas, Feb 6, 2011

captain-03

Discussion Starter · Jan 29, 2011

Let me hear your feedback!! As stated at the beginning of the match; this is a work in progress and we would like to make it enjoyable to as many as possible ... what was good, what was bad, and any new ideas!!

Mrs.Hammer has suggested we let Relay 1 score Relay 2 -- excellent idea!!

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jbpmidas

· #21 · Jan 30, 2011

A dedicated sighter is not a bad idea, especially for those that "hold off" instead of making sight adjustments. However, I disagree with the unlimited number of sighters and swapping between scorers and sighters.

I think the best solution would be to make a couple of lanes available for shooters between relays to fix problems. Also, if possible, a 30 minute prep time before the match for shooters, who need to, get ready.

captain-03

Discussion Starter · #22 · Jan 30, 2011

jbpmidas said:
..think the best solution would be to make a couple of lanes available for shooters between relays to fix problems. Also, if possible, a 30 minute prep time before the match for shooters, who need to, get ready.

That is a solution and I did think about it; however, we can not tie-up multiple ranges and/or there may not be lanes available for this ... Also, it would require additional RSOs to monitor these other lanes ... 30 minute period before the match would require match personnel to get there and set-up earlier, etc. More logistics than I really need.

Just wondering - What do you feel is the downside to unlimited sighters as long as it counts against their 20 minutes?

G

· #23 · Jan 30, 2011

We're beginning to stray from the original intent of the creation of the 22 F-Class match. The target should remain the same and the sighter box should remain. One of the first rules of the game is to be prepared. If your rifle is not zeroed for 100 yards, then you are definitely not prepared. It was my understanding that 5 sighters would allowed for the beginning relays and 2 sighters for each of the other two relays. The intent was to practice F-Class at a lower cost than using centerfire. While I agree that some people could have used many more sighters to get their rifles properly zeroed, figuring out how to get the five sighters where they need to be is part of the competition.

And by the way, did I mention that I taught him everything he knows about shooting?

jbpmidas

· #24 · Jan 30, 2011

The downside is distraction to other shooters. Attempting to fire my rounds and others being coached through sighters can be detrimental to focus.

Question: When is coaching allowed? Through sighters? Through all rounds fired?

bubbat

· #25 · Jan 30, 2011

My random thoughts...

I like the idea of a dedicated sighter target. Printing the targets in black might be better, but blue worked ok for me.

I don't see how people shooting sighters unlimited or not would be a distration, gun going off next to you whether they are shooting a sighter or for score sounds the same, you would never know.

Now you might be distracted by someone coaching or spotting for them during the sighters or the match,doesn't bother me, talk to me during the match all you want, I'm use to trash talk from shooting buddies on the firing line anyway.
I kinda like the idea of people coaching or spotting, I think we had a couple people shooting Sat. that had never shot at a target, so the coaching helped them and might get them to come back again.

While the original intent of F class 22 was for people who shoot F Class to get more trigger time and do it cheaper, it has transformed into something better, a friendly match that everyone can shoot with a .22 everybody has a .22 and can throw a cheap scope on it and have fun, from FClass vet to beginner shooters.

I like it, I think if we get too many rules, the fun is gonna be taken out of it and we won't get new shooters and people will quit.

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jbpmidas

· #26 · Jan 30, 2011

If coaching is allowed, that's fine, everyone, including me, will get used to it. I just didn't know if it was allowed or regulated.

bubbat

· #27 · Jan 30, 2011

Coaching could be limited to your first match, then no more after that?

jbpmidas

· #28 · Jan 30, 2011

Or, coaching should be limited to sighters. Folks with low power or irons need some help adjusting. But, when you start firing for score, you're on your own.

bubbat

· #29 · Jan 30, 2011

That would work, get people on target faster.

G

· #30 · Jan 31, 2011

Captain,
I've been doing some thinking. How about a "Sporter" class and a "Target" class. Sporter class shoots the larger scoring ring target that we didn't use and the Target class shoots the targets we did use. All from 100 yards with whatever sights you want to use. This would even the playing field somewhat. A custom 10/22 would be in the Target class while a standard 10/22 would be in the Sporter class. It would be easy to classify the rifles as to which class they had to shoot in. Also, it could be worked out where junior shooters could shoot at 50 yards unless they wanted to shoot at 100. Just some food for thought.

jbpmidas

· #31 · Jan 31, 2011

How would you classify a Savage like yours?

GunOneDown

· #32 · Jan 31, 2011

JMO, I think the targets with black instead of blue work better. I think the sighter rounds as they are should be enough. Reason being is that the shooter knows they are going to a competition and target will be at 100yds and shooting from the prone position. Therefore the shooter should have made atleast some minimum preparations to compete, like sighting in their rifle. The sighters are for minor adjustments due to wind weather changes and to check from transporting weapon. Just some thoughts

captain-03

Discussion Starter · #33 · Jan 31, 2011

GunOneDown said:
JMO, I think the targets with black instead of blue work better. I think the sighter rounds as they are should be enough. Reason being is that the shooter knows they are going to a competition and target will be at 100yds and shooting from the prone position. Therefore the shooter should have made atleast some minimum preparations to compete, like sighting in their rifle. The sighters are for minor adjustments due to wind weather changes and to check from transporting weapon. Just some thoughts

\
... again, what is the downside of the unlimited sighters fired on a separate target as long as it is part of their 20 minutes? Still waiting for someone to explain the downside!

GunOneDown

· #34 · Jan 31, 2011

I think there should be 3 classes : open, shooter, & junior. Open is basically unlimited gun and optic. Shooter with the 12x optic restriction and larger target, but can shoot open class with low power optic if shooter chooses. Junior is 16 & under with unlimited rifle and optic. Large target and 50yd range. Junior do have option for open class as well.

GunOneDown

· #35 · Jan 31, 2011

Downside to unlimited sighters= none
I just don't think it needed. If it is allowed though, there will be some timers coming out and some shooters will not finish a string. It won't bother me either way, but a spotter for every shot would bother me. Spotters could be allowed for Juniors and Shooter class and I'd just deal with all the talking.

captain-03

Discussion Starter · #36 · Jan 31, 2011

GunOneDown said:
Downside to unlimited sighters= none
I just don't think it needed. If it is allowed though, there will be some timers coming out and some shooters will not finish a string.

Thanks - I can not think of any downside to permitting unlimited sighters. It is my goal to increase participation in this event and remove any obstacle that may hinder participation as long as it does not affect other participants or prolong the match. Most folks who own a basic 22 have them sighted for 40-50 yrds and they have not taken the time and put in the effort to try to shoot out to 100yrds. I do not want a firing line composed of "seasoned competitive shooters". I want a mixture of experiences so that the newer shooters can actually learn from the experienced shooters. My limited experience shows that new shooters never used their 20 minutes per string; however, it they do not get their 20 scoring shoots completed within the 20 minutes, they suffer the penalty.

I still like the idea of having 3 targets per string with one dedicated as a sighter target. I was the RSO during our 1st relay on Saturday and had 4 of the 13 shooters actually put their first sighter round into the scoring rings. It seems to be a common occurrence for the 1st round from a lot of rifles to hit low from a cold bore. I shot in relay 2 and my first sighter round went into the scoring rings. The use of a separate target would serve to make this issue irrelevant and would not take anything away from the conduct of the match.

GunOneDown said:
, but a spotter for every shot would bother me. Spotters could be allowed for juniors and Shooter class and I'd just deal with all the talking.

I have not given much thought to the issue of coaches and spotters. It would hard for me not to allow coaches and/or spotters for any junior shooter or any shooter shooting optics of 12X or less. I think I will put the question out to the participants at our next match.

Please – let me hear more about what ya’ll think!!

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shoeshooter

· #37 · Jan 31, 2011

SGMJody said:
Captain,
I've been doing some thinking. How about a "Sporter" class and a "Target" class. Sporter class shoots the larger scoring ring target that we didn't use and the Target class shoots the targets we did use. All from 100 yards with whatever sights you want to use. This would even the playing field somewhat. A custom 10/22 would be in the Target class while a standard 10/22 would be in the Sporter class. It would be easy to classify the rifles as to which class they had to shoot in. Also, it could be worked out where junior shooters could shoot at 50 yards unless they wanted to shoot at 100. Just some food for thought.

I, too, think two classes are needed. I don't think it will be "easy" to classify them though. Need some something simple and totally objective...like weight of rifle/scope combo. With the zillion possible modifications you can make to a 10/22, just for example, where would you draw the line? But, what does a 40X weigh? SGF's doesn't LOOK very heavy, and we know it can shoot!

PhillipM

· #38 · Jan 31, 2011

SGMJody said:
Captain,
I've been doing some thinking. How about a "Sporter" class and a "Target" class. Sporter class shoots the larger scoring ring target that we didn't use and the Target class shoots the targets we did use. All from 100 yards with whatever sights you want to use. This would even the playing field somewhat. A custom 10/22 would be in the Target class while a standard 10/22 would be in the Sporter class. It would be easy to classify the rifles as to which class they had to shoot in. Also, it could be worked out where junior shooters could shoot at 50 yards unless they wanted to shoot at 100. Just some food for thought.

I had the lowest power scope on the course at 2.5x and had to hold center of 8.5 x 11 paper. I think a definite aiming point for shooters of lower magnification is a good idea but keep the scoring rings the same for the reasons SGMJody mentioned before the match, just make the target black out to say the 8 ring (open to debate) for low powered scope shooters.

I really liked the 300 meter, or was it yard, target reduced for 100 yards for international competition brought out after the match.

jbpmidas

· #39 · Feb 1, 2011

I believe unlimited sighters could be allowed for new shooters. Also, coaches, or spotters, should be allowed for 12x and under on sighters.

On the unlimited sighters, I just believe it takes away from the advantage of people who have taken the time to come prepared. SGMJody and I took the time to prepare and practice. We knew when we got to the match, we were ready!

M1GarandFan

· #40 · Feb 1, 2011

What about having a set amount of time to get sighters in, say 5 minutes? I believe a separate target for sighters would be great. We allow 10 sighters before each highpower match and usually get all sighters done in about 20 minutes on average, I think (that includes walking down to the 200 yard targets and marking the first five shots then walking back up to the firing line).

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