Feedback Thread 1-29-2011 22F-Class Shoot

PhillipM said:

[I really liked the 300 meter, or was it yard, target reduced for 100 yards for international competition brought out after the match.

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I like it also …. My only concern is using it on the Center Range – can we get enough elevation on the target stands for safety. Actually was thinking about trying to use it horizontally rather than vertically. Playing with the idea! The up side is that these are commercially available and would not require the printing of targets prior to each match. Believe me that is an hassle and expense we could do without. We have been fortunate that X-Ring and Nonnieselman has helped us out with this; however, we can not continue to have them supply us with targets!!

M1GarandFan said:

What about having a set amount of time to get sighters in, say 5 minutes? I believe a separate target for sighters would be great. We allow 10 sighters before each highpower match and usually get all sighters done in about 20 minutes on average, I think (that includes walking down to the 200 yard targets and marking the first five shots then walking back up to the firing line).

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Really do not want to add anymore time to the match. The proposal of unlimited sighters requires the shooter to accomplish all his/her sighters within the permitted 20 minutes. This adds no more time to the match and does not require any additional downrange time.

jbpmidas said:

I believe unlimited sighters could be allowed for new shooters. Also, coaches, or spotters, should be allowed for 12x and under on sighters.

On the unlimited sighters, I just believe it takes away from the advantage of people who have taken the time to come prepared. SGMJody and I took the time to prepare and practice. We knew when we got to the match, we were ready!

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I wish to keep it as simple as possible. To permit only the new shooters unlimited sighters would require someone making the determination of who is or what is “new shooter,” i.e., would a past NRA small bore champion be classified as new shooter if he has never shot our match before? Would past experience level count? We would have to have a completely new set of rules for determining who was “new” and who was not. With new participants at every match, this would add additional time and effort. Additionally, someone would have to make sure everyone abides by the rule that ONLY new shooters will be permitted unlimited sighters. Will there be a penalty if someone shoots more than they are suppose to, etc, etc, etc? Keep it as simple as possible is my thought – allow everyone or no one.

I really do not see how unlimited sighters would take away the advantage for people who have taken the time to come prepared. Those who take the time to come prepared will be better prepared than those who do not and it will certainly show. The unlimited sighters would surely be a disadvantage to those who shoot a lot of sighters because it takes away from their total time permitted to complete the firing string and they may have to hurry to finish the firing string. I also believe that once they shoot one match with their rifle of choice using the unlimited sighter rule, they will not need and will not take as many sighters at the next match unless they make some changes to the rifle / scope, etc. Not everyone has the opportunity to go to the range everyday like some of us. Many of the participants currently involved may not have the opportunity to put in quality trigger time between matches. To some it is an issue of time, and/or expense and to others it is just not a priority. However, all want to come out and have a “fun” time on the range. Additionally, everyone would have the opportunity for unlimited sighters; thus no one would be at a disadvantage.

Here are a few of my thoughts regarding these matches. The “competition” aspect of this event is already compromised and is certainly not fair. We had shooters shooting everything from old Remington Nylon 66s to high dollar Anschutzs. Shooters used everything from Winchester/Federal Bulk 22 ammo to Eley 10X. At our second trial match we had a NightForce Scope on the line. Far from being a FAIR competition. As I stated in the shooter’s briefing, we do bill these events as a “competition,” but that is not the primary focus of the event. The primary focus is to enjoy yourself, have a fun day on the range, learn something new, and shoot a little better than last time. It is my goal to involve as many individuals as possible in these matches. They should not be saddled with a lot of rules; especially, those that inhibit their ability to do well. I DO want the scores to be as HIGH as possible for every participant – the higher the score a person can shoot, the more likely they are to return and do it again. If they can not get on paper in 5 rounds, they can not be expected to shoot well. However, once we get them “hooked,” most will take time to better prepare and some will actually go out a purchase a rifle strictly for this event. As these matches mature, we can certainly look at more stringent classes and rules. The goal for now is to encourage and not inhibit participation and “Grow” the event. If someone says to me they would like to come and participate but they only have X rifle with X scope and have not shot it in years – I will tell them to come on out, bring what you got, and we will take care of you!!

I do not think anyone would disagree with the fact that those participants who prepare, practice, and have good equipment will always be at the top of the leader board!!

I maybe somewhat over ambitious, but I would love to see this match spread to other clubs in the state and actually have a State Championship Match at the end of the year. However, we must GROW the interest in our event by encouraging participation in every way possible – and not inhibiting it.

I think unlimited sighters for those shooting in the junior class would be great especially if junior class was broken down by age. The older more experienced junior shooters would not get the unlimited sighters because they are better prepared and not considered new shooters. Unlimited sighters however I do not think would help much in the adult classes. Junior shooters can learn from being allowed unlimited sighters in many ways. I also think if a junior shooter decides to shoot in an adult class like Miss Hammer did at this shoot they should follow all of the rules for the adult class and not have allowances made for them. If they think they are able to compete and hold their own against older more experienced shooters then they should do it at the same requirements for that class. I don't think unlimited sighters in the adult classes would do much good but that’s my opinion. I kind of feel that if you want to do something bad enough you will find a way to make time to prepare for it. Miss Hammer is still considered a new shooter, I would guess, but she even now knows that if she wants to shoot her best she has to prepare ahead of time. She also knows that if she wants to shoot against adults and prove herself as good as them then there will be no allowances made for her and she will have to do it the same way the adults do. Any who back on topic.
On relays scoring relays if there is an odd number of shooters and 1 person doesn't have another relay to score his target. Then I think the line boss should score that target. Well that’s my :2c: on things.

I suspect most all of the "old" (that's experienced, not aged) shooters had spotting scopes they were not using. I would certainly loan mine to any shooter with a lower powered scope on their rifle to assist their spotting. That would hold some of the chatter down when they were having to turn around and ask for help. The dedicated sighter target would help with that also as has already been stated above.

I also have no problem with anyone helping a junior for the whole period right next to me. I'm as serious as anybody, but let's keep everything in perspective. These are informal, local, one of a kind, fun matches, that can stay that way if we let it. The distance, wind and mirage just happens to throw enough challenge into it to interest the "old" shooters. Magnolia R&P tried the NRA smallbore matches back in the 1980s. It didn't fly, because of the rules for an approved match were so regimented that they did not allow any slack, and all the new shooters simply gave up fast. Many never even tried. I believe "F class" style shooting can overcome this and be more enjoyable.

I hope we can keep it easy on the rules, targets, and course of fire for the sake of the new shooters having an experience that they will want to repeat. I believe from the comments that have been posted, we are onto something that is fun and we should at least experiment with different targets that would include iron sight shooters or low powered scope shooters (with spotting scopes).

22RF F-Class matches at Magnolia.......... The K.I.S.S. factor..........

My take on what I have read here.........

1. Separate sighter target (placed above the scoring targets).

2. Unlimited sighters done at any time.

3. Must complete 20 shots for score in 20 minutes.

4. Target size & color.... Sporter, Junior, etc. Divisions could use a larger target.

5. Sporter Division has a 9X scope limit. No custom guns with maybe a weight limit. ie: No Kimber 82-G with 3x9 scope.

6. Keep coaching to a minimum.

7. Tell new shooters to have their gun zeroed at 100yds BEFORE coming to the matches.

8. YES, keep the rules as simple & few as possible (K.I.S.S.)

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