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Discussion Starter #1
I recently purchased 100 rounds of supposedly once fired 308 brass at a gun show. The brass is all marked "LC 06". I sized it all in a Hornady sizing die and trimmed it all to length. Upon trimming the brass I notice that it all seemed a little long for once fired brass. Some of it was up to 25 mils too long. Anywho.........after the cases were all preped I loaded them with the same powder charge (46.5 gr H380) as my previous loads and capped them off with 150gr Hornady SSTs (the same load I've been shooting for months). When I got to the bench I noticed that NONE of the Lake City cases would chamber in my rifle. They seem to go into the chamber well enough but I can't lock the bolt. I've inspected all of the brass by measuring length and diameter but, I can't seem to find any differences between the Lake City and the Frontier brass that I've been using.

Do you have any idea what the problem my be? Have you heard of anyone else having problems with Lake City brass?
 

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This could be brass that has been fired in a M60 machine gun. The brass can stretch lengthwise and expand at the base when fired in a machine gun. . Measure the head diameter and check that with the head diameter of the cases you have been using. If you buy USGI brass in the future, try to determine wether the brass has been fired in a rifle or machine gun.

Another item you might want to acquire is a cartridge headspace gauge. Wilson makes these. It measures the headspace of the cartridge case.

Doug
 

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Agree with Doug -- a lot of LC .308 have been fired in machine guns with very loose chambers. IF they are all timmed to the correct length, have they been run through a full length sizing die?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
That's correct. I used a full length size die. I even resized a few empty cases for a second time and tried them in my rifle (just to make sure I didn't do something stupid like forget to size them the first time). The empty cases showed the same problem as the loaded ammo.


Thanks for the info, Doug. I was completely unaware that machine gun fired brass could be so dimensionally different. Should the seller of the brass be able to account for what gun it was fired from? If so, are they likely to be honest about it?

I'm assuming that if the heads are stretched then that would render this brass useless. Is that a correct assumption?
 

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Caleb C said:
That's correct. I used a full length size die. I even resized a few empty cases for a second time and tried them in my rifle (just to make sure I didn't do something stupid like forget to size them the first time). The empty cases showed the same problem as the loaded ammo.


Thanks for the info, Doug. I was completely unaware that machine gun fired brass could be so dimensionally different. Should the seller of the brass be able to account for what gun it was fired from? If so, are they likely to be honest about it?

THAT DEPENDS ON THE SELLER

I'm assuming that if the heads are stretched then that would render this brass useless. Is that a correct assumption?
YES


Doug
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I can't help but wonder if the seller knew that the brass was garbage when he sold it to me. It very well could have been an honest mistake.

But still, when he started talking about killing a moose at 1000 yards with a 44 mag six-shooter or busting prairie dogs at 100 yards with a 9mm.....I should have put my money back in my pocket and walked away.
 

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Caleb C said:
I can't help but wonder if the seller knew that the brass was garbage when he sold it to me. It very well could have been an honest mistake.

But still, when he started talking about killing a moose at 1000 yards with a 44 mag six-shooter or busting prairie dogs at 100 yards with a 9mm.....I should have put my money back in my pocket and walked away.
I'm not saying it's impossible, but I would have to see it twice to believe it!
 

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Same here,, that 44mag would drop like a rock,

2000 inches is what i found on a calculator if he was shooting a 300gr XTP at 1300fps sighted in at 100yds :lol3:
And it would take almost 4 seconds to get there..
 

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well it was only a 100 rds...there are worse problems to have...

Gun shows sure aint what they used to be...

I hate it when gun folks stick it to gun folks...pi$$es me off
 

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I've loaded a lot of once fired LC that I'm sure were shot from a machine gun and I've never had a problem like this. Full length resize and trim to length and the always chamber for me. Could have been a fluke I guess.
 

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Hope this ain't a hijack..

I always check the head of my LC brass for "extreme" stretching with a paper clip; it's easy to see the stretch marks on the outside of the case head, but it's even faster and easier to feel it than look for it. I say that to pose this--I've never trimmed and full-sized any brass that didn't fit the chamber it was sized for after that process--isn't that the reason and purpose of a full-length sizing die?

That is to say, wouldn't a full-length die resize even full-auto brass "properly" to the right dimensions (assuming the trimming was done), and fit in the chamber, even though the case wall was dangerously stretched?
 

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Commercial hunting/target rifles are going to have tighter chambers than military rifles. Have you considered buying a set of Small Base FL sizing dies?

.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
SubGunFan said:
Commercial hunting/target rifles are going to have tighter chambers than military rifles. Have you considered buying a set of Small Base FL sizing dies?

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Small Base FL sizing dies? What's that?
 

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Sounds like its pull the bullet time and start over to me...That's why you only load a few till you get the kinks worked out....Been there done that.... made that mistake...several times

Small Base Sizing

Some firearms will require that fired cases be returned to approximately unfired dimensions. This is the purpose of the so called small base sizing die. In essence, this is nothing more than a standard full length sizing die, which has been reamed to absolute minimum dimensions. Tight chambers, a lack of camming power, or a combination of these may require cases to be sized to these smaller dimensions to assure positive chambering. As we have noted, most conventional full length sizing dies reduce a case’s fired dimensions enough to allow the case to be easily rechambered, without bringing it down to its original, unfired dimensions. In some instances, this will not quite be sufficient to assure positive operation and functioning. This most often occurs in firearms that lack the camming power of a bolt action, such as semi-autos, pumps, and lever actions. Sierra has worked with a large number of these types of firearms that functioned perfectly well with conventional full length dies, and suggest resorting to small base dies only if they prove to be necessary. They do work the brass more, and will usually result in reduced case life.

Die adjustment for a small base sizing die is exactly the same as for a full length sizing die, but special emphasis should be paid to avoid exceeding allowable headspace dimensions. Chamber type case gages, such as those available from L.E. Wilson, or micrometer gages like the RCBS Precision Case Mic are extremely useful in adjusting small base dies.

http://www.exteriorballistics.com/reloadbasics/resize.cfm
 

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Discussion Starter #17
It sounds like a lot of hassle for no reward. I would probably be better off to trash my lot of Lake City brass and just stick with commercial stuff from here on out. This has taught me a valuable lesson about buying once fired brass from the crazy six-gun shootin' 1000 yard moose killin' guy at the gun show. My next lot of brass will be NEW.
 
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