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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I stumbled across this YouTube channel, Guns of the Old West, hosted by Dustin Winegar. Pretty good content on BP stuff. Well, this week he released a video on a Paper Cartridge Kit that he’s producing for .36 and .44 caliber. Kit comes with papers and precut bases for rolling cartridge tubes, as well as formers, measures, a funnel, glue and some homemade bullet lube. All packed in a handy little case. I’ve ordered a kit setup for both .36 and .44. Price was $50 shipped. The formers, funnels and measures all appear to be 3D printed parts and the papers and bases are heap cigarette papers. See the pic below. And here’s a link to his video about the kit.




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I watched that video too, the kit seems good and ready to go. I shoot BP all the time, but never loaded paper cartridges. From others that I've talked to the cartridges are fragile and have a tendency to rip open. You can also make them with nitrided paper to make the paper burn completely.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Received my Paper Cartridge Kit from “Guns of the Old West” today. Took a few minutes this evenjng to load a few for My .44 caliber NMA. Hornady .454 round balls over 25 grains of FFFG (measured with the provided pre-dosed measure). I expect that this is one of those “better with practice” type of endeavors. As you can see, each of my loads is quite unique. I’ll be taking these six round to the range ASAP to have a go at 15 yards to test for reliability, accuracy, and consistency. I’ll compare to 6 rounds loaded with loose powder and ball. With luck I’ll be able to post the results over the weekend.

A note on the procedure itself: in the video demonstration, the instructions are to apply glue so as to be able to cut off the factory applied glue strip once the paper cone is formed. Cutting the papers in half, as instructed, leaves the paper too short for this method to work properly for .44 caliber. I found that applying glue over the factory glue strip and then rolling so as to close on said strip allows for more contact to be made on the seam side of the cone. I do not believe that the factory glue strip by itself would be sufficient enough to hold the cone closed.

233840

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Inclement weather and a busy weekend prohibited me from making it to the range this weekend. With luck, I should be able to go early enough tomorrow afternoon to complete the test before our regular Monday night Air Pistol League.
 

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Let us know how they work, I know I'm really curious. Good Luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Time to load 6 rounds: loose powder
, lubed felt patch, .454 round ball, cap, and fire 1st round.
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Time to load 6 rounds: pre-made paper cartridge with 25 grains FFFG and .454 round ball, cap and fire 1st round
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Shots numbered 1-6 with loose powder and ball. Shots numbered 7-12 with paper cartridges. All shots center hold, off hand, 15 yards, Army “L” target.
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One bad flyer in second string
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No malfunctions, no significant increase or decrease in accuracy, no significant increase or decrease in felt recoil, no significant increase or decrease in accumulated powder fouling. I estimate that using either lubed patch and ball or paper cartridges, this NMA could shoot upwards of 25 - 30 rounds without issue, maybe more. A good, though not excessive, coating of lube on the leading face of the ball is necessary for paper cartridges, as that is the only opportunity to apply lube, unless you are sealing chambers with grease.
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Overall, I’m impressed with these results. For general plinking the paper cartridges offer acceptable accuracy while ignore than halving the load time between strings. The process of making the cartridges can be tedious, but as I made these 6 while catching up on YouTube videos, the potential to craft a supply of these in ones downtime is appealing.
 

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For the first 6 were you loading them with the rammer? How I've sped up loading the NMA is I pre-measure 25gr into plastic vials BP Vial.jpeg

then I place a lubed wad and ball

then I use this to ram all the chambers at once
1595892222932.png

I shoot in CAS matches (25 rounds per pistol, per match) without any binding issues. When I get home clean the cylinders with soap and water, pick the nipples, grease the rod and cylinder hole with Gun Butter (not Bore Butter), and of course clean the barrel.

Thanks for sharing the results and for timing the loading.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I was loading using the rammer. We do not shoot any BP comps at SWGC, but we do shoot a Vintage Military Handgun (Bullseye pistol) match every month and are entertaining the idea of adding two 5 shot strings with C&B revolvers to the end of the match. I feel like having 10 or 12 pre-made paper cartridges would help speed things up a little without sacrificing accuracy or reliability. Though, it seems like I’m going to have practice a little Kentucky windage with this NMA if I want to keep my scores up.
 
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That sounds like fun! I had to file the sights down a little to get POA/POI pretty close.
 

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I just recently purchased that same kit. I have not used paper cartridges either and thought id give them a whirl.
Yours turned out way better than mine.
i also tried conicals in my .36 colt but the “lee conicals” need the hulk to get them in the chamber and thats without the paper glued to ‘em. i had a brainstorm! The conicals are .375 dia and i remembered “i have a .356 sizing die!” I set up my reloader and told myself “this will work!” i didnt want the whole bullet sized just a lil of the base...so i lubed a conical, put it upside down, and with the most control i had, my teeth grinding and my seat pinched i pulled down the lever ever so slowly till i got to the 1st lube groove...wow! It actually worked! I did 40 or so and ended up with 33. It takes a lil practice to be consistant. Over all im getting better with making the paper cartridges but not good enuf for pictures. 🥴 The cartridges i completed were for my 1858 rem .44. They worked pretty good! When i get some of these .36 modified conicals done i will post a pic....
Im also thinking of nitrating the paper...any thoughts or opinions?
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The conicals are .375 dia and i remembered “i have a .356 sizing die!”
What does the bore measure on your revolver? On my 1851 Colt (Uberti), it measures .375" inch. If using a conversion cylinder for .38 Specials, you have to use hollow-base wadcutters, so the "hollow base" can flare out and engage the rifling. I'd be afraid a .356" inch projectile might not "seal off" well in the chamber. My round balls "shave a ring of lead" off the circumference as they enter the cylinder chambers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Im also thinking of nitrating the paper...any thoughts or opinions?
Here is a good video from the YouTube channel Era's Gone Bullet Molds that demonstrates using "stump remover".

 
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What does the bore measure on your revolver? On my 1851 Colt (Uberti), it measures .375" inch. If using a conversion cylinder for .38 Specials, you have to use hollow-base wadcutters, so the "hollow base" can flare out and engage the rifling. I'd be afraid a .356" inch projectile might not "seal off" well in the chamber. My round balls "shave a ring of lead" off the circumference as they enter the cylinder chambers.
My bore also measures .375. You are right about using hollow base wadcutters. In my .36 conversion i use .357 hbwc and they work well in my gun. I do need to recover a fired bullet tho, that will tell me more of whats going on. Also, i like shooting the wadcutters cause it makes that perfect punchout hole in paper. Back to using the conicals, i only size the base so it starts easier before i plunge it down and there is a ring that shaves off.


Here is a good video from the YouTube channel Era's Gone Bullet Molds that demonstrates using "stump remover".

Yes sir! Good video!
Is it really worth it to nitrate? Ive heard on both sides of this question. I already have the stuff i guess i should try it! I got the stuff to make bp....but im sort of a procrastinator....and safety concious....
 
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Oh yea, the conicals do measure .375” dropped from my lee mold. I buy the wadcutters.
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
As for it being worth it to nitrate the papers, I can see the advantage of having the paper itself be combustible, as untreated paper tubes can sometimes leave fragments of themselves behind inside the chambers, facilitating the need to clean said chambers between reloads. Not every time, mind you, but often enough that it’s made me purchase the materials for nitrating (I’m a procrastinator as well, and haven’t made any yet). I’ve found that making sure your chambers are dry as a bone before loading cartridges made of untreated paper can help reduce the chances of left overs but it’s not a cure all. On the other hand, as the nitrated papers are combustible but do not flash, there is every chance of that some small, smoldering bits could linger inside a chamber and cause issues of their own when reloading, though, I believe this risk is this pretty low. Besides, best practices should have us checking the chambers for obstruction or embers between reloads, regardless of the loading method used. Just my $0.02.
 

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I wish I could find a way to stop the spent caps from falling down into the action and jamming up the gun. I notice it more on my Uberti 1851 Navy Colt than on my Pietta 1858 Remington New Army, but it happens on both. One guy on YouTube called it "cap suck", but other than lamenting the problem, he proffered no solution for fixing it.
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
The old timers would point the revolver toward the sky before cocking the hammer, theoretically allowing the spent caps to call to earth as opposed to into the action. These day, such action is not conducive to safe range conditions and is frowned upon.
 

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I wish I could find a way to stop the spent caps from falling down into the action and jamming up the gun. I notice it more on my Uberti 1851 Navy Colt than on my Pietta 1858 Remington New Army, but it happens on both. One guy on YouTube called it "cap suck", but other than lamenting the problem, he proffered no solution for fixing it.
On the colts, there is the lil vertical notch on the hammer that is the problem. I found 2 ways to fix the problem...1st you can file down the sharp edges, opening that notch to a wide “v” then give it a lil polish with a fine “stone”...2nd you can use jb weld (or some metal apoxy) to fill in that notch. Clean up any excess after it hardens and your golden. I chose to file down the notch “teeth” or “fangs”, then a lil polishing and 99% cured. I filed a lil bit to see if it works and so far i like it.
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I wish I could find a way to stop the spent caps from falling down into the action and jamming up the gun. I notice it more on my Uberti 1851 Navy Colt than on my Pietta 1858 Remington New Army, but it happens on both. One guy on YouTube called it "cap suck", but other than lamenting the problem, he proffered no solution for fixing it.
That was one of the big improvements that Remington made, the design helped the caps from jamming. The other improvement was the cylinder release, many shooters carried extra cylinders for quicker reloads.
 
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