[Tako-Sama]

I have always been a fan of older guns. I don't doubt that my single action Colt will be shooting long after I am gone. But my recent foray into modern sub-compacts and and rifles concerns me a bit.

I love shooting these modern guns my M&P is fun to shoot, it is tight, accurate, easy to load, easy to unload, modify, and all that good stuff. However, taking it apart and cleaning it is less exciting. Little parts, relatively complex firing mechanisms, and plastic as far as the eye can see is certainly a change of pace from the older revolvers and even older semi-auto pistols.

Now I am looking at ARs and some it seems are entirely composite . Many pistols are extremely low cost but seem to be made out of sub-par plastic and material, that just doesn't seem like it will be around for a long time.

One thing I love about collecting guns, and one of the reason I have so many despite not being a hunter or competitor, is that they are an asset. They are valuable, not only economically but they provide personal, social, and to a certain degree political utility. The guns that I have in my safe are valuable, they have maintained their value better than my vehicles, electronics, and even house. In some cases they have appreciated in value. Now I take good care of my guns, I don't shoot them as much as some but I also don't let them gather dust and rust, I take the time and spend the money on making sure that these assets maintain their value.

What do you guys think about the long term value of many of the modern firearms? I know that in 10 or 20 years my peacemaker is still going to be a collectible, it is still going to be valuable, and forgiving any unforeseen circumstances it is still going to be in perfect firing condition.

Now I don't want to sound like an old timer or anything but what do you think are the long term effects of the fact that they... just don't make them like they used to.

 

[pinetor]

short and sweet..

I concur.

 

[shoeshooter]

+1

I don't own a plastic gun. 'nuff said.


Oops, I forgot my Taurus 380. I do have ONE.

 

[Will_M]

I have to disagree.

My M&P has very few moving parts. Everything is modular. I broke a slide stop (after 15,000+ rounds) and replaced it with a new one in 15 minutes, having never done it before.

Your Colt is actually much more complex and requires a lot more precision. Does that mean the M&P isn't precise? No. Machining has gone leaps and bounds in the past 100 years.

And "cheap" plastic? I love a steel frame, but there's nothing wrong with polymer guns.

And this is coming from a 1911 guy.

 

[savageshooter]

main reason i bought a Bushmaster AR. colt has way too much plastic in them. a Marine neighbor recommended me by Bushmaster. pistols are the same, way to much plastic.

 

[Tako-Sama]

I am not saying that polymer parts are necessarily bad, or even that they are of inferior quality, because frankly really high quality polymer could last as long as steel if you take care of it.

It just seems that the reduced craftsmanship in many of my newer style firearms would reduce the long run value and utility of them.

I am a big fan of advancement and innovation, and undoubtedly there have been tons of innovation to firearms since my single action army was the head honcho, but they just don't feel as solid.

Maybe it's buyer's remorse, but it seems that sometimes a gun can be more than a shooter, or a defender, if you get the right ones and take care of them, they can be an investment. And the guns that qualify as investment material just seem to be too few and far between for the modern firearm manufacturers.

 

[chestnut]

Light weight an light weight carry is what brought on the polymer revolution. Steel, wood, and polymer wear out sometimes. I have different firearms made of all these components. I like them all for the purpose and use they where designed for. My Humble :2c: worth.

 

[TomBomb]

Tako-Sama, very mature thinking for a guy your age..... you've got me thinking now too about the long term real value of my collection, and about future purchases.

 

[msredneck]

Gun mfg's stay in business by selling guns...not how long they last.

Planned obsolescence is every where you look...your car, home computer etc etc.

we've become a nation that wants to sit on our a$$ all day and watch a computer screen...we will pay dearly for this one day I'm afraid.

Trouble is, few Americans are willing to pay for true craftsmanship...They look only look at the price tag...thinking nothing of quality

If you want craftsmanship...it can still be had...case in point a few of the custom rifle builders we have here in MS...

You got to pony up the bucks for em though...Too many folks are willing to "settle" for good enough

 

[Myers]

The other thing to consider is this. The guns you buy now that are considered investments, are guns that are most likely not being produced right now. Thus where their value comes in to play. Obviously special editions and custom jobs are another ball of wax, but by in large, your investment grade guns have some age to them. 40 years from now a mint condition M&P may sell for more than it was bought for, assuming the value keeps up with inflation rates. I understand what you are saying, but it's really hard to say modern guns aren't worth buying and keeping as investments now because we don't know what their values will do in the future.

Guns are an investment no matter who made them. 50 years from now, a lorcin or a highpoint may be worth big bucks to somebody who collects such a thing, especially if those two companies are gone.

To your original point though. Yeah, maybe some are "planned obsolescence", but that doesn't mean there aren't manufacturers out there putting out quality product. Take your Colt for instance. They weren't the only pony in the show back in the day, but they are the most well known because they have stuck around, and there are still lots of samples floating around that are still in functioning condition. Just because it was made 50 or more years ago, doesn't mean it was a quality product 50 or more years ago.

 

[1985 4runner]

When I think of obsolete firearms, I think of flintlocks & muskets.

I hope my polymer guns last as long as my AKs. I do plan on purchasing a few more steel & wheel guns in the future.

 

[msredneck]

Basically few guns are really "investments"...bad term

Like tools....each has its purpose

I have SHTF guns....

I have daily personal protection guns....

I have fun guns (expensive stuff...like F class rifles)

I have hunting guns

and I have a few put away...safe queens...

not necessarily worth anything to anyone but me...heirlooms u might say...priceless items (to me) like my Father's deer rifle that He never missed with....

Having a gun you don't shoot is like having a wife you must feed and care for, that you don't sleep with....

Guns are just tools...and I love em all

 

[Tako-Sama]

Basically few guns are really "investments"...bad term

It sounds to me like all the guns on your list are one form of investment or another. Investments by definition are intended to protect and accumulate wealth, but not necessarily financial wealth. Your SHTF guns provide you with wealth of security, and if the SHTF then they may very well be much more valuable than the paper you used to buy them making them a fantastic investment. You may gain social wealth from shooting F-Class and honing those skills. You obviously have a great extent of emotional wealth for your heirlooms, and that emotional wealth may be more valuable to you than anyone else, and as such you will never sell the gun because no one would be willing to pay for the emotional wealth that you have attached to that gun.

While we have strayed a little off topic, the original motivation for this post was that a student of mine asked about the investment potential of non-traditional asset accumulation. And yes, guns are a very safe investment (most of them are), market values of vehicles drop around 40-60% of most vehicles after a year of ownership, guns that figure is only around 5-10%. So short term they are relatively safe investments, but in the long term do modern guns have the potential to act as investment grade assets for growth? There are cases of families using a vast gun collection as a retirement plan, just like property or real estate, guns (despite short term fluctuations and loses) have historically been able to act as investment grade assets (way more fun than a 401k right?) Planned Obsolescence is a fact that our global market has to deal with, and since it is a relatively new concept the long term adverse affects are not known. What happens to the value of a SHTF gun when it turns out the manufacturer only intended the the gun to fire a certain amount of rounds? Or what happens to the poor doctoral student who doesn't have the funds to invest in high-growth areas, or the desire to throw money in a savings account accumulating such a small amount of interest it isn't worth the paper they print the statements on. So he considers buying guns, guns that hopefully will be valuable several years down the line when he wants to "trade them in" towards other assets.

*shrug* maybe I should do a case study

 

[TomBomb]

All, good points....and I'll add that as compared to my previous investment/hobbie BOATING (ugg), guns are FANTASTIC investments!!! 'Neck, you hit the nail on the head, as usual.... why do I have all the guns I have? Exactly the reasons you've stated... Too many times, even on this Forum, people try to class all guns into one do-all category.... to me, like 'Neck, there are many uses, and also much fun to be had, wheeling and dealing, testing, trying, trading, selling, buying more in all of them..... But this thread has me leaning towards a few more traditional 1911's and large cal. Revos before any more poly guns......

 

[flagaman]

Interesting observations here. An old Colt single action or python will not stand up to a heavy volume of fire as say a Ruger blackhawk or super redhawk. Does that make one better than the other? Of course not. Just different. As a person who makes his living in mechanical manufacturing, I can easily say modern manufacturing techniques and technology have made it possible to make quality, functional firearms that are affordable for those of us that are cash challenged. The hand workmanship that was necessary to make parts fit is often accomplished on a machine or through a process. But fine workmanship does have it's own rewards.

As I see it, antique firearms, automobiles, watches, etc. are good investments if there is someone willing to pay the price when you are ready to sell. We all know that. So as an investment of worth, we have to have someone who is willing to pay what we think our item is worth. We buy these type items for some purpose, e.g., enjoyment, investment, etc. If for an investment, see the above statement. In reality, if you guess right, it's an investment. You guess wrong, oh well. You base this on the best knowledge available at the time of your original purchase. History shows trends, but nothing is etched in stone.

So with that said, Personally, I purchase a firearm for enjoyment or to satisfy a need, but mostly enjoyment. Investments are with my banker or broker. And even those are not a sure thing as the past economic fluctuations have shown. But I do think stocks, bonds, etc. are generally easier to turn back into cash with a more ready pool of "buyers". But, if we have a full scale economic meltdown, guns and ammo will be mighty desirable commodity.

These observations are just mine and certainly do not reflect on anyone elses decisions to invest as they see fit. I am certainly not an investment broker or banker, just an opinionated oldster that likes fireams for what they are. And if they go up in value, wow, I get a double dose of enjoyment.

Regards,
Howard

 

[Doug Bowser]

I do not and will not own a firearm with a plastic frame or receiver. I have a Rock River AR15 and there are no plastic parts except for the stocks. How can anyone compare a plastic framed revolver or pistol with a vintage S&W revolver or an old Colt 1911.

Doug