Question about gun in USPSA shoots.
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Yes, it's fine as long as it's not ported and is the same length as factory.
Sorry for the confusion Neck. New here and still getting my "sea legs".
The thread I was referring to is at:
http://www.msgunowners.com/handguns-f15/gen-4-g19-vs-9mm-conversion-barrel-for-g23-t8064.htm
I did look at the rules section for approved guns at UDPSA and it doesn't say anything about conversion barrels in the Production class that I could see.
I want to abide by the rules and if Cliff says it is ok then it must be kosher.
Thanks for y'all replies.
The thread I was referring to is at:
http://www.msgunowners.com/handguns-f15/gen-4-g19-vs-9mm-conversion-barrel-for-g23-t8064.htm
I did look at the rules section for approved guns at UDPSA and it doesn't say anything about conversion barrels in the Production class that I could see.
I want to abide by the rules and if Cliff says it is ok then it must be kosher.
Thanks for y'all replies.
Sorry I am late to this thread but I have been out of town and generally just not around here as much lately. I hate to be the buzz kill to the thread, but the above replies are incorrect.
Appendix D4, Rule 21.3, found on page 79 of the USPSA rulebook states in part regarding Production:
I know there is no real advantage (other than cost) of a G23 converted to 9mm over a G19, but I didn't make the rules. It probably wouldn't be a big deal locally, but the rules are the rules. I have a friend in Ohio that converted a G20 10mm to .40S&W with a barrel swap. His thought was the barrel was still the same "caliber", i.e. .400". Brass was cheaper and he loaded .40 for both he (in major) and her (in minor) on the same press. It was fine locally and not even questioned at an Area/Regional match. They later shot a State match (I don't remember which one) and she was bumped to Open because of it. He argued it and they said "caliber" didn't mean diameter but actual cartridge, and a .40S&W is not a 10mm. He lost. I can't remember if he ever got a ruling from NROI on it or not, but long story short, she no longer shoots it in Production, whether it was ruled illegal or to save the headache of arguing with folks about it, I don't know.
Hope that helps some, and hope to see you at a match sometime (there is one this weekend after all).
Bryant
http://www.uspsa.org/rules/2010HandgunRulesProof3web.pdf
Appendix D4, Rule 21.3, found on page 79 of the USPSA rulebook states in part regarding Production:
See link below, emphasis added.
I know there is no real advantage (other than cost) of a G23 converted to 9mm over a G19, but I didn't make the rules. It probably wouldn't be a big deal locally, but the rules are the rules. I have a friend in Ohio that converted a G20 10mm to .40S&W with a barrel swap. His thought was the barrel was still the same "caliber", i.e. .400". Brass was cheaper and he loaded .40 for both he (in major) and her (in minor) on the same press. It was fine locally and not even questioned at an Area/Regional match. They later shot a State match (I don't remember which one) and she was bumped to Open because of it. He argued it and they said "caliber" didn't mean diameter but actual cartridge, and a .40S&W is not a 10mm. He lost. I can't remember if he ever got a ruling from NROI on it or not, but long story short, she no longer shoots it in Production, whether it was ruled illegal or to save the headache of arguing with folks about it, I don't know.
Hope that helps some, and hope to see you at a match sometime (there is one this weekend after all).
Bryant
http://www.uspsa.org/rules/2010HandgunRulesProof3web.pdf
Well, this is a Production Division rule, so the only 1911 type gun allowed in Production would be the Para Ordnance LDA. Since Para makes them in 9mm and .40, both would be legal in stock caliber as that is the way they came from the factory, but you could not rebarrel say a P16-40LDA to 9mm for Production division.Hammer said:
As far as Open, Limited, Limited 10, and Singlestack, any caliber is allowed equal to or greater than .38/9mm (.354"X.748"), and I don't know of any rule that prohibits a shooter from changing the caliber of a gun or swapping barrels in those divisions. I could be wrong about Singlestack as far as changing calibers from stock, but I don't see it addressed in a quick review of the rules.
Db,
Thanks for the reply. I have just about come around on my own that to stay in Production either shoot my G23 or get a G19.
One question I have that was raised in your reply to Hammer is this. What is the advantage to shooting Production vs another class like Open for example. I am a new USPSA shooter and still trying to figure everthing out.
Thank you for your imput.
Surgdog
Thanks for the reply. I have just about come around on my own that to stay in Production either shoot my G23 or get a G19.
One question I have that was raised in your reply to Hammer is this. What is the advantage to shooting Production vs another class like Open for example. I am a new USPSA shooter and still trying to figure everthing out.
Thank you for your imput.
Surgdog
No problem, I'm glad to help wherever/whenever I can.surgdog said:
The biggest advantage to shooting Production to me is the ability to shoot something you have. Most people that own handguns have or can borrow something that will fit within the Production rules. They will generally just need a few more magazines/mag holders to be ready to go. There is no "ideal" Production rig, as it is largely personal preference. Glocks have been used to win more Nationals than anything out there, but there are also more of them being used although this numerical advantage has come down somewhat over time.
Another advantage is Production typically has more beginners in it and, at least in Mississippi, more shooters than most, if not all, other divisions at local matches. It is a good way to come try a match and see if you like it. You may like the division and want to stay there, or you may see something you might like better and want to branch out. It is completely up to you.
While money is the first thing that came to Xd's mind, it's not necessarily so for me. He is right though. You can get started in Production for cheaper than Open. That being said, you can spend (or may compete against) $1,500+ Production rigs, while I know someone that bought a used Open gun for a grand, put a couple hundred bucks into gear for it, and has won local matches and done very well with it. However, even with 9mm in Open guns, it will have to be reloaded for best performance and brass won't last as long, so it is more expensive to run.
The thing that comes to my mind regarding the difference is restrictions, or lack thereof. Production is very regimented and strict. Open is the exact opposite, and the other divisions are somewhere in between. To make a rough, cheesy analogy with drag racing, Production is like running stock Cameros and Mustangs or something. You can change the tires and the paint, but that is about it. Open on the other hand is about as wide open as you can get with optics and compensators, more like a top fuel dragster. Yes, it should be more expensive to run and maintain, but it should also be faster. That is why the divisions don't really compete head to head. Most clubs print an "unofficial" overall because the shooter's request it, but it is just that, unofficial. You will generally see Open or Limited shooters at the top, but I have seen David Sevigny and Rodney May win the overall at local matches shooting Production. You really only compete with those in your division though.
It just comes down to what you prefer. Do you like shooting or competing with a "duty" type gun with a double action or "safe action" trigger (Production) or do you prefer shooting a relatively stock 1911 (Singlestack), a wheel gun (revolver), or a modified gun of your choosing to fit your tastes without optics or a compensator (Limited or Limited 10), or the least restrictions around (Open).
I have tried a few different divisions, but I pretty much have always shot Limited. It just fits my personality and style and is what I want to shoot. I prefer iron sights, and comps are loud and put blast back into my face which I don't care for. I also like a single action trigger. I can do lots of things to make the gun how I want it, and I have more options on how to shoot stages because of the higher capacity. Reloading is still important but there is more weight on the shooting than the reloading, and I can usually be in the hunt for the overall if I do my part, which to be honest I do enjoy, "official" or not. My $.02 (with the length of this post, you are really getting your money's worth! LOL)
Thanks for such a thorough answer DB.
I think for now I like and will stay with production since I am in it for as the name says "practical shooting", also, I am probably more competitive in this class than with the "hard core" shooters in open.
I think for now I like and will stay with production since I am in it for as the name says "practical shooting", also, I am probably more competitive in this class than with the "hard core" shooters in open.
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