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Seeker of wisdom & Purveyor of the truth!
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi All,

I will be the first to tell you, yes I can be considered an old timer be some folks standards and I am far removed from a competition shooter.

I think red dots on a MSR and some carbines are a great option, but I do not understand the craze with putting one on a pistol, I just don't get it.

The realty of it is that if a person uses a pistol purely for self defense then the most basic grandma can hit a man sized target, esp. with some of the fast food, cornbread eating crooks in todays world. LOL

To me it compromises the concealability and drawing in a major way, as well as alters the basic shape and esthetics some of us like in the pistol, Seems it would take out the elements of actually learning to shoot the tried, true traditional way, most of the fun in owning and taking pride in a pistol is to learn it, not to adjust a dot to compensate for poor/improper hold or compensate for the pistols natural trajectory.
 

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Rational Anarchist
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I have two P365XLs, one with the Romeo Zero, one without. I have shot and carried both. I personally prefer the one without the optic and have contemplated trading the optic for a rear sight but, so far I haven’t bothered.
 

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Rational Anarchist
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My problem with the optic mostly that it doesn’t seem robust enough and partly that it takes me much more time to to find the dot. I realize I his is a training issue but being I am not prepared to put optics on all of my defensive handguns I figure the juice isn’t worth the squeeze.
 

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I think we will reach a point where reddots on handguns are just as ubiquitous as they are on rifles and carbines. I am not convinced that we are there yet though. The major argument for them is that they allow target focused shooting and eliminate the traditional sight alignment problems that plague new shooters and sight focus issues that plague those of us with aging eyes or poor eyesight. With that said, the flip side of that is they also require maintenance in the form of batteries, and zeroing. The ability to functionally adjust away your shooting deficiencies I think is a bad thing and can give people a false sense of competency.

To play devil's advocate. I recognize and I'm quite confident that the exact same set of arguments were posited against reddots on rifles and carbines as well and that learning how to shoot iron sights should never be replaced by an electronic optic. Yet here we are today, not even questioning that a reddot or some form of optic is almost required equipment on a rifle.

I believe there is great value in learning how to shoot iron sights on rifles and pistols and equate it to learning how to drive a stick shift vehicle. I feel more "connected" to the tool and I think there is great benefit in having an intimate understanding of the way it works and behaves without "easy buttons" attached. But for a lot of people a gun is just another tool, and they don't have a vested interest in having an intimate understanding of how it works or even developing a high level of mastery with it, they just want it to work and that's ok too.
 

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I think it has to do with gains in speed and accuracy. You don't have to focus on aligning front and rear sights and making sure they are on target but instead just put a dot on a target. They work for night/lowlight and help folks with vision issues. Similarly its usually easier for folks to shoot a rifle with a 1x scope or red dot than it is with irons.

Look at competition shooters Open division typically wins over Limited due to the optic etc. Once you train yourself to use one properly, it is a lot faster but its all about what you are comfortable with.


Edit: What Myers said while I was typing
 

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What Myers and redlick said.

I’d add, the concealability and draw strokes aren’t valid arguments against a red dot. Pistol size dots are not going to make it any less concealable than the grip or slide will. And you can get plenty of holsters that accept a pistol with a red dot, just like you can pistols with a light. Any quality pistol dot is going to have the edges smoothed/rounded to minimize snagging and discomfort.

It’ll be the norm one day, just like they are on rifles. I’m sure some old timer(you said it) in the early 1900s was fussing about scopes on rifles.
 

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I want to be able to use them, but every one I have tried just looks like a fuzzy blob. Astigmatism sucks.
If the "fuzzy blob" is on the target, you will still hit. 😎. Had the same problem...had cataract surgery and got new glasses... see a dot now.
 

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Gatekeeper to my corner of Hell.
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I haven't shot a dot sight on a pistol since the 80's when an bulky Airport was the only choice for one, never shot one with one of the new smaller red dot.
Got Truglo red dots on an AR and a M&P 15-22, haven't really liked them because I had the same problem as Steve2112 just red blobs. Had cataract surgery last month, now I see dots.
 

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Seeker of wisdom & Purveyor of the truth!
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
What Myers and redlick said.

I’d add, the concealability and draw strokes aren’t valid arguments against a red dot. Pistol size dots are not going to make it any less concealable than the grip or slide will. And you can get plenty of holsters that accept a pistol with a red dot, just like you can pistols with a light. Any quality pistol dot is going to have the edges smoothed/rounded to minimize snagging and discomfort.

It’ll be the norm one day, just like they are on rifles. I’m sure some old timer(you said it) in the early 1900s was fussing about scopes on rifles.
I would not rule those thoughts out as totally invalid, sure if you have special holsters and practice over and over with one configuration then it can be over come, but if you want to grab a pistol quickly and carry it with you, then the two main things you try to avoid is it printing and snag on the draw, no matter how well designed the RMR it still adds a degree of difficulty, not to mention pistols precut for RMR can have much taller sights on the front an back incase a RMR is installed.
 

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Do I need one? No. Do I want one? Not really. Would I? On the right gun absolutely.

don't currently believe I have a need for one currently as there are plenty of sighting options that work just fine for me and are easy to see. I know a lot of older people are turning on to the idea as their eyesight goes and I think that makes sense for them. Something like the XS Big Dot sights work well for me and I believe are easy to see and pick up. Other high visibility sights like fiber optics also work quite well for me too and I've grown to like the Meprolight Bullseye sight.

I just don't see myself using a red dot on a carry gun unless it's an open carry duty piece. Get one of those full size guns like a Springfield XDM Elite with a good red dot sight and I could see that being good. But something like a Sig P365 or Hellcat? I just think it starts to defeat the purpose of having a smaller gun if we're going to make it's profile bigger and taller.

I do believe in the next 5 years or so almost all guns from the factory will be optics ready and some will come premounted with an optic of sorts. And I do welcome this change. I just know for the current moment it's not needed or desired in my life but I won't turn my nose up to the concept or idea.
 

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I would not rule those thoughts out as totally invalid, sure if you have special holsters and practice over and over with one configuration then it can be over come, but if you want to grab a pistol quickly and carry it with you, then the two main things you try to avoid is it printing and snag on the draw, no matter how well designed the RMR it still adds a degree of difficulty, not to mention pistols precut for RMR can have much taller sights on the front an back incase a RMR is installed.
The taller sights are a good point.

ETA: when I initially responded, I was thinking about just the dot itself.

It still adds very little to the overall profile of the gun, as far as bulk, so additional printing is still not something I would lose any sleep over.
 

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I haven't shot a dot sight on a pistol since the 80's when an bulky Airport was the only choice for one, never shot one with one of the new smaller red dot.
Got Truglo red dots on an AR and a M&P 15-22, haven't really liked them because I had the same problem as Steve2112 just red blobs. Had cataract surgery last month, now I see dots.
After reading yours and granjack's posts, I guess I need to have cataract surgery. I'm too young for that, damn it! 🤣
 

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Seeker of wisdom & Purveyor of the truth!
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
After reading yours and granjack's posts, I guess I need to have cataract surgery. I'm too young for that, damn it! 🤣
I had cataract surgery at 39 and 40, One of the best things I could have done.
 

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After reading yours and granjack's posts, I guess I need to have cataract surgery. I'm too young for that, damn it! 🤣
Are you saying we're old?:p
 
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