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Deplorable Curmudgeon
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Discussion Starter #1
Should we arrest criminals who try to buy a gun from a gun shop since it's likely they'll eventually find another way to kill a bunch of people?


LOL!!!

Sorry… sometimes I can’t help myself.
You’d think that would be the logical thing to do don’t you? I mean they lied on a Federal document. They tried to circumvent the law. Why don’t we arrest them?

Even the government knows it’s a problem:

Gun form liars may go on to commit gun crimes, internal ATF research suggests

Why don’t our elected officials do something?

Here’s something to chew on:

“Investigations and prosecutions. Federal and selected state law enforcement agencies that process firearm-related background checks through the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) collectively investigate and prosecute a small percentage of individuals who falsify information on a firearms form (e.g., do not disclose a felony conviction) and are denied a purchase. Federal NICS checks resulted in about 112,000 denied transactions in fiscal year 2017, of which the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) referred about 12,700 to its field divisions for further investigation. U.S. Attorney’s Offices (USAO) had prosecuted 12 of these cases as of June 2018.”
https://www.gao.gov/assets/700/6...
112,000 denials for purchase - 12 prosecutions.

What more needs to be said?

.

We have laws, our officials choose to not enforce them.

Do you know why?
Because they don’t want to. They want to convince everyone that the laws are ineffective, and that more are needed. So they don’t enforce the ones that we have.
They let the killing go on so that they can push the gun-confiscation agenda.
They go so far as to NOT prosecute felons with guns in order to keep the killers on the street. All in an attempt to prove that the laws (which they refuse to enforce) are ineffective and that they need to pass more.
“There’s no disincentive to carry:” Felons with guns dodge ‘minimum’ sentence, despite new law
Arrests in Baltimore for illegal guns often lead to dropped charges or little jail time
 

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Don't let "good enough" be the enemy of perfect.
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How about this: After a criminal has fulfilled his sentence, he is restored to a full fledged citizen with all the rights and privileges thereof?

I do not understand why having been convicted of (or pled guilty to) a crime becomes a lifelong prohibition of his 2nd Amendment rights.

But that's just me.
 

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Premium Member
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How about this: After a criminal has fulfilled his sentence, he is restored to a full fledged citizen with all the rights and privileges thereof?

I do not understand why having been convicted of (or pled guilty to) a crime becomes a lifelong prohibition of his 2nd Amendment rights.

But that's just me.
Because nobody gets rehabilitated in jail. They come out better criminals.
 

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Deplorable Curmudgeon
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Discussion Starter #4
How about this: After a criminal has fulfilled his sentence, he is restored to a full fledged citizen with all the rights and privileges thereof?

I do not understand why having been convicted of (or pled guilty to) a crime becomes a lifelong prohibition of his 2nd Amendment rights.

But that's just me.

I have recently come to that conclusion my self
If you done the time. you paid for the crime
slate is clear debt is pd in full
 

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I have recently come to that conclusion my self
If you done the time. you paid for the crime
slate is clear debt is pd in full
Problem is, they don’t “do the time”. Prison overcrowding, shutdowns, etc lead to early release, probation, parole. Its a joke. You would be amazed how many times you have to violate before you’re put back in. Used to be, you violate house arrest or parole, you were back in prison within 72 hours. Not any more.

So, when is their time done? Probation/Parole, completion of probation/parole? Flat time? Early release?

I’d put more, but I’m on my phone
 

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What y'all are talking about is Recidivism Rates. Here's a little info that may answer the question regarding restoration of rights. The following is a little old, but if I had to guess, I'd say the recidivism rate has increased since this study by NIJ was conducted.

Excerpt:

Recidivism | National Institute of Justice

National Statistics on Recidivism

Bureau of Justice Statistics studies have found high rates of recidivism among released prisoners. Examines the recidivism patterns of former prisoners during a 9-year follow-up period.[3] The researchers found that:

  • The 401,288 state prisoners released in 2005 had 1,994,000 arrests during the 9-year period, an average of 5 arrests per released prisoner. Sixty percent of these arrests occurred during years 4 through 9.
  • An estimated 68% of released prisoners were arrested within 3 years, 79% within 6 years, and 83% within 9 years.
  • Eighty-two percent of prisoners arrested during the 9-year period were arrested within the first 3 years.
  • Almost half (47%) of prisoners who did not have an arrest within 3 years of release were arrested during years 4 through 9.
  • Forty-four percent of released prisoners were arrested during the first year following release, while 24% were arrested during year-9.
The difficulty is that generally you can't know in advance (prediction is difficult), which individual will re-offend.
 

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There are some criminal debts that can never be repaid, and those perpetrators should never again see the light of day but, sadly, many do. As for them, the albatross of their crimes should be a life long sentence, and if the loss of their rights is part of that sentence, then I see no issue with it. However, for someone who’s crime is not heinous, violent, or for someone who is not a repeat offender, then restoration of rights should come with the completion of their sentence. BUT, the minute they fall back into a life of crime and are convicted a second time, the suspension of some rights after release may need to remain a consideration. JMHO
 

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What y'all are talking about is Recidivism Rates. Here's a little info that may answer the question regarding restoration of rights. The following is a little old, but if I had to guess, I'd say the recidivism rate has increased since this study by NIJ was conducted.

Excerpt:



The difficulty is that generally you can't know in advance (prediction is difficult), which individual will re-offend.
You might not be able to pick out the small percentage of prisoners that wont get in trouble again but when a massive amount end up back in prison its pretty easy to generalize.
 

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You might not be able to pick out the small percentage of prisoners that wont get in trouble again but when a massive amount end up back in prison its pretty easy to generalize.
Yes, it is. However our legal system frowns on generalities being applied to individuals.
 

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Yes, it is. However our legal system frowns on generalities being applied to individuals.
Not really or else they would have their rights restored. Not that Im in favor of it but they based that law off of a generality. No there should be a way for them to get their rights restored if they show clearly that they have been reformed, but not for just doing time.

I do not understand why having been convicted of (or pled guilty to) a crime becomes a lifelong prohibition of his 2nd Amendment rights.
 

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Espongement doesnt exist in all states and some only esponge juvenile records. Others arent esponged but the record is made confidential are still visible to LE Agencies so I would have concerns about them still showing in NICS.

Expungement Laws Across the United States (Criminal Record Removal)

"In the state of Alabama, you cannot expunge or seal a conviction if you are an adult. You can expunge non-conviction records for nonviolent felonies or misdemeanors........
Mississippi will expunge juvenile and non-conviction records. However, misdemeanors and felonies may receive deferred adjudication, but not expungement unless required by law."

In LA, HOUSE BILL NO. 55
"(2) An expunged record is confidential, but remains available for use by law
13 enforcement agencies, criminal justice agencies, and other statutorily defined
14 agencies."
 

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μολὼν λαβέ
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Problem is, they don’t “do the time”. Prison overcrowding, shutdowns, etc lead to early release, probation, parole. Its a joke. You would be amazed how many times you have to violate before you’re put back in. Used to be, you violate house arrest or parole, you were back in prison within 72 hours. Not any more.

So, when is their time done? Probation/Parole, completion of probation/parole? Flat time? Early release?

I’d put more, but I’m on my phone
So why is it that prisons are so over crowded? Could it be we put allot of people in there that really shouldn't be in prison? The system is broke.
 

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I think that they should have different criteria for reinstatement of rights based on the severity of the crime. If you commit a crime that keeps you from regaining your rights, you should NEVER get out of prison.

edited to add: Most people that commit crimes know full well the consequences if caught. I have no sympathy for them whatsoever.
 
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