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If you know how to shoot it................... You LEAN into it ! ! !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSefhmWhgos
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSefhmWhgos
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The M14 (Full-auto) ain't so bad......
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Not the way.................
This guy does NOT know how to shoot the M14 full-auto...................
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLbz524G4v0
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This guy does NOT know how to shoot the M14 full-auto...................
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLbz524G4v0
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21,635 Posts
I would really like to give one of those a try!!
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Respectfully SGF, I disagree. IMHO, it looks like the soldier in the 2nd video never got into a comfortable shooting position. I doubt he'd have fared much better with a M-16. You've got to remember why the M-14 was developed. It was designed to replace the BAR, M1 Garand, and the .45ACP Grease gun. By all accounts, it failed.
I've shot a number of full auto shoulder fired .308 caliber rifles and prone is absolutely the very best way to control the rifle... Period, end of story. I've put a number of rounds down range with the FAL, Cetme, G-3, M-14, and most recently, the BM-59, all in full auto. The 7.62x39 is a completely different beast and they're a p***y cat by comparison along with the Sturmgewehr MP-44 in 7.92x33.
I love the 7.62x51, but it's a very poor caliber choice for a shoulder fired full auto weapon regardless of the platform. I doubt if I live to be a hundred we'll ever see a new full auto shoulder fired 7.62x51 weapon developed and used by any country. The caliber makes a dandy crew served/belt fed weapon and it's use in semi auto or precession bolt action rifles will be with us for years to come.
[flash=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/v/4weIh3Mc6kU" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true[/flash]
I've shot a number of full auto shoulder fired .308 caliber rifles and prone is absolutely the very best way to control the rifle... Period, end of story. I've put a number of rounds down range with the FAL, Cetme, G-3, M-14, and most recently, the BM-59, all in full auto. The 7.62x39 is a completely different beast and they're a p***y cat by comparison along with the Sturmgewehr MP-44 in 7.92x33.
I love the 7.62x51, but it's a very poor caliber choice for a shoulder fired full auto weapon regardless of the platform. I doubt if I live to be a hundred we'll ever see a new full auto shoulder fired 7.62x51 weapon developed and used by any country. The caliber makes a dandy crew served/belt fed weapon and it's use in semi auto or precession bolt action rifles will be with us for years to come.
[flash=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/v/4weIh3Mc6kU" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true[/flash]
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I had a MS State Association DCM M14 go full auto on me. I was in a rifle jacket and sling laying prone. The shots from a really tight position were 50" higher at each shot. I replaced and fit a new hammer and no more problems.
Doug
Doug
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Doug; Your story supports my position that a full auto shoulder fired 7..62x51 caliber rifle isn't a viable option where controllability is a primary consideration. Can you imagine where your shots would have been if you had been sitting or kneeling? :blink:
A one inch muzzle rise will yield a 50+" higher impact at less than a hundred yards. Firing a gun and expecting one shot and then having it dump a magazine will certainly get your attention. I've personally experienced it and I've witnessed runaways on other full auto guns. It's different when you're expecting full auto fire and can't turn it off. That'll get you attention too. Good thing you got the rifle repaired. A hammer that follows the bolt and results in very dangerous slam fires which could result in an OOB gun experience to include a potentially fatal KABOOM.
The bulk of my full auto M-14 experience has come from my friend "Different's" factory full auto Springfield M1A. He's written several books on the subject, has documented many different rifles and parts, and has countless hours of research on this weapon. He's my M-14/M1A go-to-guy. http://www.imageseek.com/m1a/gallery/
Please don't think that I'm bagging on the M-14 platform. I own a SA M1A and it's probably my all time favorite semi auto rifle... just edging out the M1 Garand.
My point was the term controllability is extremely subjective when you're talking about a shoulder fired full auto .30 caliber gun... particularly the M-14. Not every person in the military carries or uses a gun as part of their job/MOS. Consider the M-14 is seeing some limited use as DM weapon in the sand box, but isn't regularly encountered. It's unfair to assume that someone involved with supplies, logistics will be a marksman just as it's unfair to think a DM will be able to repair the fuel injection system on an M1 Abrams tank.
*The 2nd video looks to be a Mk.14 Mod.0 EBR as used by Navy SEALS.
A one inch muzzle rise will yield a 50+" higher impact at less than a hundred yards. Firing a gun and expecting one shot and then having it dump a magazine will certainly get your attention. I've personally experienced it and I've witnessed runaways on other full auto guns. It's different when you're expecting full auto fire and can't turn it off. That'll get you attention too. Good thing you got the rifle repaired. A hammer that follows the bolt and results in very dangerous slam fires which could result in an OOB gun experience to include a potentially fatal KABOOM.
The bulk of my full auto M-14 experience has come from my friend "Different's" factory full auto Springfield M1A. He's written several books on the subject, has documented many different rifles and parts, and has countless hours of research on this weapon. He's my M-14/M1A go-to-guy. http://www.imageseek.com/m1a/gallery/
Please don't think that I'm bagging on the M-14 platform. I own a SA M1A and it's probably my all time favorite semi auto rifle... just edging out the M1 Garand.
My point was the term controllability is extremely subjective when you're talking about a shoulder fired full auto .30 caliber gun... particularly the M-14. Not every person in the military carries or uses a gun as part of their job/MOS. Consider the M-14 is seeing some limited use as DM weapon in the sand box, but isn't regularly encountered. It's unfair to assume that someone involved with supplies, logistics will be a marksman just as it's unfair to think a DM will be able to repair the fuel injection system on an M1 Abrams tank.
*The 2nd video looks to be a Mk.14 Mod.0 EBR as used by Navy SEALS.
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Blasphemy!! :lol: :lol4:VegasSMG said:
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My issue weapon from 1953 until 1958 was the M1 Garand until it was replaced by the M14 which we carried until 1963. Some ground troops continued to use the M14 in in Vietnam because of it's accuracy, and added range over the M16. I also have the M1A civilian version of the M14 and IMO it is no match to the M1 Garand.
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:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:chuckusaret said:
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VegasSMG, I agree with your statements. Mainly not going to a 7.62x51 shoulder fired gun. And yes, the belt-feds are GREAT.
As for the soldier shooting prone..... I agree prone is the most accurate method, I was just pointing out that soldier did not "prepare well" for his shooting. Plus, I didn't like that configuration of that M14. Stick with the basics (most of the time)..... IMHO.
As for the video......... Why would anyone think they could do well trying to hit a helmet at 450yds STANDING on full-auto...? Yes, he hit the helmet, but he fired MANY rounds to get the job done.......
VegasSMG..... You still Da Man.
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As for the soldier shooting prone..... I agree prone is the most accurate method, I was just pointing out that soldier did not "prepare well" for his shooting. Plus, I didn't like that configuration of that M14. Stick with the basics (most of the time)..... IMHO.
As for the video......... Why would anyone think they could do well trying to hit a helmet at 450yds STANDING on full-auto...? Yes, he hit the helmet, but he fired MANY rounds to get the job done.......
VegasSMG..... You still Da Man.
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Please understand, I do enjoy wasting a mag or two of ammo in full auto .30 battle rifles, but owning one is far from the top of my wish list. As you know, I'm very fortunate to live where I do and be a part of a large and active NFA community and have shot a number of interesting weapons.SubGunFan said:
The gun was beating him silly. I'll bet his MOS doesn't involve firearms but he wanted a video to send back home. I love the classic looks and lines of the M14/M1A. The Mk14 Mod.0 is plain FUGLY to my eye even though it may be a great platform for it's intended mission. You'll never see that kind of "crap" on my M1A. I can't even get excited about OEM fiberglass stocks. Wood and steel keeps it real.SubGunFan said:
Yeah, but it looks like he was having a good time. :lol4: I shoot at measured 400 yard steel plates at our club twice a month. One of those weekends is ViMSAR and I use either with my M1A or M1. It's tough enough in semi auto with iron sights and the rifle benched and bagged at that distance so I'm guessing they fudged a just tad on their distance.SubGunFan said:
So why don't you come out with Chad in October? I've got .30 caliber battle rifles for each of us.SubGunFan said:
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Shouldn't have opened my pie hole about the M1A. I just received last weekend's ViMSAR match results and note that I was SOUNDLY beaten by three M1 shooters and an SKS! :blink:
http://www.vegasshooters.com/forum/showthread.php?522-August-ViMSAR-Results
http://www.vegasshooters.com/forum/showthread.php?522-August-ViMSAR-Results
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The M14 that went full auto was loaded with 5 rounds and it was uncontrolled fire. Someone took too much off the hammer hooks , trying to lighten the trigger. A replacement hammer and a little fitting was not too much trouble.
I have fired M1, M1A and AR15 and have never fired scores at 600 higher than with the AR15. I have a NM AR15A2 by Rock River and as far as target shooting is concerned, it can't be beat. The only problem I see in practical situations is the lack of penetration. Although I have seen a .223 w/80 gr bullet penetrate through a 14" bridge railroad tie at 600 yards.
I still have 2 M1 Garand Rifles. My M1A was sold many years ago when the slow twist barrels and 80 gr long range loads were developed for the AR15. The M1's are both legal for Garand Matches and that is the only match I will use an M1 in. In 1980, I got my DCM Garand. It was an unfired Rock Island Arsenal rebuild. The DCM sold it for $112.00 plus shipping. I sent the rifle to a Sgt. "Hook" Bowden at Ft. Benning, GA. He accurized the rifle and it performed very well for a service grade barrel. I shot the rifle approximately 9,000 rounds and the barrel finally lost it's sharp edge at 600 yards. I replaced the barrel with a USGI barrel by LMR. It shot 9,700 rounds before accuracy failed at 600 yards. That combination on the M1 was more accurate than the SA barrel. I replaced the barrel with a Douglas Supreme XX heavy barrel and it was the most accurate barrel of all. It is interesting that the bedding did not have to be redone until I used the Douglas barrel. All we did when I replaced the SA barrel with the LMR, was to put the rifle together and shoot it. 1.5" at 100 is very good for any Garand. When I replaced the LMR with the Douglas barrel, we had to re-glass the M1 stock.
All I have to say is they are all great and I hate to see the M1 Garand taken off the eligible service rifle list. When I fired my first DCM "LEG" Match in 1962, I fired the 1903-A3. It was still a legal Service Rifle until 1966. There were a lot of people sad about the passing of the 1903 as a service rifle and I guess there will be a lot of Garand shooters that will not appreciate the passing of the M1. It is fortunate that the CMP has started the CMP Games and the use of the M1, 1903, 1917 and Carbine in these matches continues the traditions and history of arms in the US Military.
Doug Bowser
Doug
I have fired M1, M1A and AR15 and have never fired scores at 600 higher than with the AR15. I have a NM AR15A2 by Rock River and as far as target shooting is concerned, it can't be beat. The only problem I see in practical situations is the lack of penetration. Although I have seen a .223 w/80 gr bullet penetrate through a 14" bridge railroad tie at 600 yards.
I still have 2 M1 Garand Rifles. My M1A was sold many years ago when the slow twist barrels and 80 gr long range loads were developed for the AR15. The M1's are both legal for Garand Matches and that is the only match I will use an M1 in. In 1980, I got my DCM Garand. It was an unfired Rock Island Arsenal rebuild. The DCM sold it for $112.00 plus shipping. I sent the rifle to a Sgt. "Hook" Bowden at Ft. Benning, GA. He accurized the rifle and it performed very well for a service grade barrel. I shot the rifle approximately 9,000 rounds and the barrel finally lost it's sharp edge at 600 yards. I replaced the barrel with a USGI barrel by LMR. It shot 9,700 rounds before accuracy failed at 600 yards. That combination on the M1 was more accurate than the SA barrel. I replaced the barrel with a Douglas Supreme XX heavy barrel and it was the most accurate barrel of all. It is interesting that the bedding did not have to be redone until I used the Douglas barrel. All we did when I replaced the SA barrel with the LMR, was to put the rifle together and shoot it. 1.5" at 100 is very good for any Garand. When I replaced the LMR with the Douglas barrel, we had to re-glass the M1 stock.
All I have to say is they are all great and I hate to see the M1 Garand taken off the eligible service rifle list. When I fired my first DCM "LEG" Match in 1962, I fired the 1903-A3. It was still a legal Service Rifle until 1966. There were a lot of people sad about the passing of the 1903 as a service rifle and I guess there will be a lot of Garand shooters that will not appreciate the passing of the M1. It is fortunate that the CMP has started the CMP Games and the use of the M1, 1903, 1917 and Carbine in these matches continues the traditions and history of arms in the US Military.
Doug Bowser
Doug
Tim Lafrance made a gun called the M14K. It was a short M14 with a M60 gas system. Less recoil and slower ROF. From what I hear, it is how the M14 should be done, for auto use.
The only .308 automatic I have fired is the M60, and it took a while for me to get used to holding my head so high to line up with the sights. It ran away with me once with about 50 rounds in the belt, completely going over the berm. Good times. :mg:
Semi auto fire.. M1 or M1A... those are fine rifles.. I can shoot better with an M1/M1A iron sites, than something with a scope.
The only .308 automatic I have fired is the M60, and it took a while for me to get used to holding my head so high to line up with the sights. It ran away with me once with about 50 rounds in the belt, completely going over the berm. Good times. :mg:
Semi auto fire.. M1 or M1A... those are fine rifles.. I can shoot better with an M1/M1A iron sites, than something with a scope.
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