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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have heard of the advantage the semi-auto rifle has VS the bolt action for follow up shots, in rifles of the same caliber. I don't believe this is a fact. If a rifleman learns the proper operation of the bolt rifle, there is little difference in the speed of follow up shots between the two style rifles. It is true that the semi-auto rifle can be fired faster but this does not mean it can be shot faster than the bolt action with any real accuracy.

If a shooter uses the following method, the second shot will be very close with either rifle. This is outlined for the right handed shooter:

1. Keep the rifle on the shoulder

2. Roll the rifle slightly to the right with the left hand, allowing the bolt to pass the side of the face. This also reduces the amount of bolt lift required to fully open the bolt.

3. Return the rifle to vertical as the bolt is closed.

If you operate the bolt action rifle this way, the rifle will be loaded when it recovers from recoil. Second and third shots can be very fast and equal the semi-auto, if the rifle is actually aimed and allowed to settle down to make an accurate shot.

It takes more effort for the rifleman to learn this technique. I don't believe the spray and pray used by a lot of shooters while hunting is productive. I have often heard this in the woods: Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang and no meat is on the ground. The fellow with one placed shot usually gets the game.

Some bolt actions do not work as well as others in rapid fire. They are: Moisin Nagant, Lebel, Mannlicher Berthier, Mannlicher Carcano and Dutch-Romanian Mannlicher. The fastest bolt rifles are the Lee-Enfield, Austrian Mannilicher and the Swiss Schmidt Rubin.

Doug
 

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Good information. I'm a big fan of bolt actions.
 

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Doug Bowser said:
I have heard of the advantage the semi-auto rifle has VS the bolt action for follow up shots, in rifles of the same caliber. I don't believe this is a fact. If a rifleman learns the proper operation of the bolt rifle, there is little difference in the speed of follow up shots between the two style rifles. It is true that the semi-auto rifle can be fired faster but this does not mean it can be shot faster than the bolt action with any real accuracy.

If a shooter uses the following method, the second shot will be very close with either rifle. This is outlined for the right handed shooter:

1. Keep the rifle on the shoulder

2. Roll the rifle slightly to the right with the left hand, allowing the bolt to pass the side of the face. This also reduces the amount of bolt lift required to fully open the bolt.

3. Return the rifle to vertical as the bolt is closed.

If you operate the bolt action rifle this way, the rifle will be loaded when it recovers from recoil. Second and third shots can be very fast and equal the semi-auto, if the rifle is actually aimed and allowed to settle down to make an accurate shot.

It takes more effort for the rifleman to learn this technique. I don't believe the spray and pray used by a lot of shooters while hunting is productive. I have often heard this in the woods: Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang and no meat is on the ground. The fellow with one placed shot usually gets the game.

Some bolt actions do not work as well as others in rapid fire. They are: Moisin Nagant, Lebel, Mannlicher Berthier, Mannlicher Carcano and Dutch-Romanian Mannlicher. The fastest bolt rifles are the Lee-Enfield, Austrian Mannilicher and the Swiss Schmidt Rubin.

Doug
Good post, Doug.

And anybody who doesn't believe it has never watched old video of experienced British soldiers rapid-firing their Enfields.

:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the vote of confidence in my post. In my younger years I could start standing, go to prone and fire 10 shots rapidfire from my 1903-A3 in 19 seconds, keeping the shots in 3" at 100 yards. The Lee-Enfield was even faster because it has a 10 shot magazine and a 60 degree bolt lift. The 1903-A3 has a 90 degree bolt lift.

Doug
 

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I agree with the "The fellow with one placed shot usually gets the game." That is what I strive for in the woods. Although I am still doing it with a semi-auto. Nothing against the bolts, just my personal preference based on personal experience.
 

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MAD MINUTE was a pre-World War I term used by British riflemen during training to describe firing 15 aimed bullets into a target at 300 yd within one minute using a bolt-action rifle (usually a Lee-Enfield or Lee-Metford rifle). It was not uncommon during the First World War for riflemen to beat this feat by an excessive amount. Many riflemen could average 25 shots, while others yet could make 40 shots. It was rumored that a company of assaulting German soldiers were repelled by machine gun fire, while in actuality, it was a rifle squad of ten riflemen firing at an excessive rate.

In 1912, trials conducted at Hythe against the German Service rifle, it was found that about 14 - 15 rounds a minute could be fired from the Mauser, compared with 28 for the SMLE.
 

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I never believed that either, I watched my Dad work an 03 and a Ruger bolt with ease...one reason the 1st CF rifle I bought was a Rem. 788 in .308. That, and seeing so many autos jam. I still love the bolts, and my Ruger #1 in 30/06
 

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Doug Bowser said:
I have often heard this in the woods: Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang and no meat is on the ground. The fellow with one placed shot usually gets the game. Doug


That is why I have went to a TC Pro Hunter.
 

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I have a Lee-Enfield rifle and every time I fire it I'm always amazed as to how quick and smooth the action is. I've considered putting a scope on it but most of what I've read about bolt on mounts is that they are not very reliable. I'm reluctant to have it drilled and tapped (which I've been told is difficult to do..although this may be incorrect) because I hate to alter the orginal design of the rifle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
You are right about the non drilled and tapped mounts. There are problems with them. You are also right about the rifle being worth a lot less money when drilled and tapped.

Doug
 

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Doug Bowser said:
You are right about the non drilled and tapped mounts. There are problems with them. You are also right about the rifle being worth a lot less money when drilled and tapped.

Doug
I was told that metal used to manufacture military rifles, particularly pre-WWII and WWII era, were made of denser or harder metal as apposed to sport rifles and it was the quality of metal that makes if difficult to drill and tap for a scope...I'm sure there is a density issue when comparing aluminum to steel but was not aware how much that applied to a military surplus rifle vs a commercial grade sport rifle.
 

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I would add that if you practice manipulating the bolt with the cupped palm of your hand rather than with your fingers, you will significantly increase the speed of operation. In the old days back on the home place, I learned with a Savage 12 gauge bolt action, shooting crows. People hearing the shots thought I was using an auto. It takes practice, though.

Stryker60
 
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