[TankerHC]

I was at a Pawn Shop in Jackson yesterday and two older gentlemen came in and one of them appeared to be making his first handgun purchase, at least his first SA purchase. He told the owner that his son had sent him over and told him that the son said they had gotten some handguns in. He was looking for one and his son told him to stick to a 9mm. The owner asked him what the purpose was for the gun, ran through a couple of different things before the buyer said he was buying for self defense. He then told the owner that his son had told him they had gotten some 9's in that were missing pins or might have had some flaws. The owner told him they had some guns they bought from an auction but didnt have too many 9mm's BUT "I have some .380's and they are just cut down casing 9 millimeters". He told him "They are compact, the same as a 9MM and good for carrying". The buyer said "Thats exactly what I am looking for". I think he was buying it.

Now I am no gun expert, I do know that basically the .380 is a 9MM short. But I also know that the .380 IS NOT "the same" as a 9mm.

WHat I found wrong here is:

1. There were some 9mm's in the case, I dont think the older gentleman even knew what he was looking at and didnt look at the 9's.

2. It appeared to me the owner was just trying to unload a .380

3. Even though the man clearly said, twice, that his son said stick to 9mm's, the owner went on about the .380

4. The owner appeared to be taking advantage of the mans lack of firearms knowledge.

5. After the man said "Thats exactly what I am looking for" ie. compact, easy to carry and same as a 9, I think they were going through with the deal.

I have been to that shop numerous times and was going to buy a certain rifle that day that I have been looking at and researching for over a month, thats why I was there, with cash in hand. After listening and watching the conversation, I decided against buying anything there.

So I left.

 

[g2072]

When I was in the business when a person didn't know about the different sizes I simply opened a box of ammo and showed them the difference. It's pretty easy to tell that a larger bullet will make a larger hole even if you don't know a lot about the calibers.

 

[jakeg823]

When I was in the business when a person didn't know about the different sizes I simply opened a box of ammo and showed them the difference. It's pretty easy to tell that a larger bullet will make a larger hole even if you don't know a lot about the calibers.

Yeah but if a 9mm is the same diameter as a .380(I don't shoot either, I'm just gathering from the "9mm short" comment), your avg person who isn't a gun person is not going to know the difference except "so it's basically a 9mm short" and not have a good understanding of the difference in ballistics between those 2 or a 50AE round.

The older guys 1st mistake was to not take the advice giver along with him! Wait my bad that was his 2nd mistake....his 1st was not doing some research first. But we're all new gun buyers once....can't say I didn't make similar mistakes

 

[TankerHC]

The owner, when told twice that his son told him to stick with a 9mm should have left it at that and not tried to "promote" the sale of a .380. He also should not have told the guy that a .380 is the same as a 9mm. Clearly deceptive.

 

[jakeg823]

Definitely deceptive

 

[NRA_guy]

I bite my tongue and walk away when guys behind the counter do such things.

More than once I have seen ignorant gun buyers led down the primrose path by unscrupulous salesmen.

I am sure the same thing happens with cars, TVs, computers, cell phones, and other things.

 

[miker84]

This sort of thing happens in product sales all the time, especially with potential new customers. You have to do a balancing act of providing the customer with what they want, along with making sure they get what they really need, along with explaining the differences between the options.

Not all customers know what they want or why they want it. If you just sell them what they asked for, and they aren't very well informed, then that sale might haunt you.

If you start asking a lot of questions to try determine what the best choice may be, they may think you are trying to pull a bait and switch.

If you give them all sorts of detail about the differences between the options, then they'll glaze over and you'll have to find some metaphor or other short answer to help them understand, even though that answer may be technically inaccurate.

If you have a relationship with the customer, then this whole process becomes much easier.......well maybe not. I've got some long-term customers who tell me that I'm giving them the shaft and everything sells for less elsewhere. :lol4:

 

[TankerHC]

This sort of thing happens in product sales all the time, especially with potential new customers. You have to do a balancing act of providing the customer with what they want, along with making sure they get what they really need, along with explaining the differences between the options.

Not all customers know what they want or why they want it. If you just sell them what they asked for, and they aren't very well informed, then that sale might haunt you.

If you start asking a lot of questions to try determine what the best choice may be, they may think you are trying to pull a bait and switch.

If you give them all sorts of detail about the differences between the options, then they'll glaze over and you'll have to find some metaphor or other short answer to help them understand, even though that answer may be technically inaccurate.

If you have a relationship with the customer, then this whole process becomes much easier.......well maybe not. I've got some long-term customers who tell me that I'm giving them the shaft and everything sells for less elsewhere. :lol4:

If the seller would have done any of this, then maybe it would have been ok, however, all he did was sell an unknowing, uninformed gun buyer a .380 because it was "the same" as a 9mm. This guy knew what he wanted, a 9mm. He told the seller twice.

 

[miker84]

the seller would have done any of this, then maybe it would have been ok, however, all he did was sell an unknowing, uninformed gun buyer a .380 because it was "the same" as a 9mm. This guy knew what he wanted, a 9mm. He told the seller twice.

I completely agree with you in this specific case. That was a classic example of selling something to a buyer just because he may have been an easy target. At least you overheard this and will know better if you buy something there.

To play devil's advocate (and maybe explain why I'm sensitive to this), I once sold a guy a 16' trailer to pull behind his MTD riding mower because that is what he wanted.

This elderly gentleman walked into my shop late on a Friday and said he wanted a 16' heavy duty trailer to pull behind his mower for his lawn business that he and his son were starting. I kept asking him about his riding mower and if he was sure that he really wanted a 16' because that must have been some kind of big riding mower. I suggested that he might want to think about a smaller trailer to pull behind the mower, or maybe he misunderstood and needed a 16' trailer to haul the lawn equipment. I suggested that we should call his son and make sure that he got the right thing. He became very agitated with me and informed me that he could just go somewhere else and buy a trailer and that he was pulling trailers around before I was even a gleam in my fathers bloodshot eye. He got kinda loud and other customers were giving me some funny looks. I was young and trying to avoid conflict, so I sold it to him. Saturday morning at 7am, he came back with his 40 yr old son who proceeded to cuss me out in front of other customers because I took advantage of an old man who didn't know any better. He was supposed to get a 4' trailer to pull behind the mower so that it would fit on the 16' trailer that he already had. I told him how the sale went down and the reply was, "yeah but I sent him here because I trust you guys. You shouldn't have let him buy that just because he wanted it." So we took the trailer back and he went to a competitor to buy a 4' trailer. One month later, the guy shows up to buy lug nuts for his 4' trailer because the place he bought it from didn't carry parts. He said he had used a 20 or 21mm socket to remove the lug nuts and he wanted some lug nuts with "20 or 21mm thread". Knowing the history, I told him that I didn't have any 20 or 21 mm lug nuts but I had some 13/16 and they were "basically the same size". He tried one in his socket and on the trailer, he bought them and left happily. The next guy to the counter informed me that he was a machinist/master toolmaker and that the lug nuts I sold the fellow were not the "same size" and that I shouldn't just generalize for the purpose of making a sale and because of my lack of integrity, he would take his business elsewhere.

Now, my example isn't exactly the same as yours and I don't want you to think I'm defending this shadey gun salesman. But, there are people walking around who only heard part of that whole trailer transaction and formed an opinion about me and the place I worked.

And that's one reason why I got out of retail!

 

[g2072]

I still own a building and owned a retail business for about ten years. I firmly believe that everybody should be made to work for the general public for at least one year. Many, many, people would have a different outlook if they knew firsthand how it feels to have to wait on some of them.

 

[MrGoodtime]

I still own a building and owned a retail business for about ten years. I firmly believe that everybody should be made to work for the general public for at least one year. Many, many, people would have a different outlook if they knew firsthand how it feels to have to wait on some of them.

+100

 

[PhillipM]

I still own a building and owned a retail business for about ten years. I firmly believe that everybody should be made to work for the general public for at least one year. Many, many, people would have a different outlook if they knew firsthand how it feels to have to wait on some of them.

+100

+1000 I do commercial signs and used to used to go after the mom & pop business and selling banners and whatnot to the general public. I pulled out of the yellow pages and went to subcontracting national accounts making my life so much easier. The strangest call was from a woman that wanted neon numbers on her husband's dirt track car. Not neon paint, mind you, but actual lit up neon. I politely refused.

As far as auto hangun calibers go there are two kinds, ones with a 4 in the name and the rest. In that sense, a .380 is the same as a 9mm.

 

[mrparamedicdawson]

I had a retail business for many years, which is still in business. And i will say that one of the reasons my store was open more that 10 years was having customers come to us after going to another retailer and getting what they asked for without knowing what they actually needed. Personally I have always tried to educate my customers about what is available in the market and if I had a product to fill their need then great, but I did lose a few sales because I didn't have what they needed. That being said, those customers became repeat customers because of our honesty. I absolutely cannot stand for a retailer to lie to a customer just to make a quick sale.

 

[chuckusaret]

I visit most of the local gun stores and gun ranges in my area at least twice a week and witness the same "Bull Sh$t" weekly as uneducated new gun buyers attempt to purchase a SD/HD weapon. 9 chances out of 10 the salesperson will talk the person into buying a weapon way beyond their needs.

 

[TomBomb]

g2072, you hit the nail on the head!!!! Used to sell floor covering for a friend's start up store in Ocean Springs..... the things the public THINKS THEY KNOW will amaze you!!! And they WILL NOT listen to the facts you try to explain to them..... So, I can see where gun sales would be a real bugger to deal with the public due to the opinions, misconceptions, misunderstandings, etc. that exist in all realms of firearms. Not justifying the "misinformation" given to the prospective buyer, however, I can understand the frustration.... He still should have stood the 380 (9x17) next to the 9mm (9x19) and explained to the customer the differenece in bullet weight, powder charge, velocity, terminal impact force, penetration, etc....


(of course I speak in generalities about the public = "bad" customers, not everyone.... :blink: )

 

[NRA_guy]

Yeah, but.

I am a mechanical engineer, do all of my own work on everything, was raised by an auto mechanic dad who was quite good.

I used to go into a local family owned hardware store and say something like, "I need a galvanized 1/2-inch hex head bolt standard thread 3 inches long."

To which they would reply, "What'ch gonna do with it?"

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaargghhhhhhh!

Now that they know me, I just help my self and they say, "Let me know if you need any help."

That's just one reason why I shop there rather than Home Depot.

 

[Myers]

I worked the parts department for 6 or so years at the RV dealership, and RV parts customers can be equally frustrating. The classic example; "I need a widget for my RV"-What kind do you have?-"A 30 foot bumper pull"-Who makes it?-"I dunno, why does it matter?"-Because not all of them use the same widget-"You mean to tell me not all RV's are the same!?". I had one customer that just would/could not get that through his head and started arguing with me and telling me I was wrong. I was probably 17 at the time, so his assumption was probably that I didn't know what I was talking about.

I have learned this about people. There are simply just some people you cannot work with. You are in essence providing a service, and in order for that service to work, you have to have cooperation from your buyer. If they don't want to be helped, nothing you can say or do will convince them to listen to what you have to say. The only way they will learn is by giving them what they want, and where applicable (electronics for instance), making it clear that once you try installing it, you can't return it. With that said, I feel it is a salesman's duty to exhaust whatever means you can to try and convince them before giving them what they want. Most that I have come across, were man enough to come back and say "you were right, I need the other one you were showing me". I can't remember any off the top of my head that accused me of selling them the wrong thing.

I agree though, everybody should have to work retail for at least a year, if not more. I learned so much about people sitting behind a counter. The salesman in this case, seems more like he was just trying to make an easy sale. The customer knew what he wanted, maybe not necessarily why, but he knew what he wanted nonetheless.

 

[rustyc]

work in parts the words i cant stand are they are all the same and did that part come in also when you ask them what type of vehicle they are working on they don't know and they are driving it they ask for a part for a 2006 explorer its wrong get the vin numbers and its a 1996 but remember all parts are the same

 

[rustyc]

guess i'm a ornery old man but i do know what i drive, my wife drives and what my kids drive

 

[TankerHC]

I still own a building and owned a retail business for about ten years. I firmly believe that everybody should be made to work for the general public for at least one year. Many, many, people would have a different outlook if they knew firsthand how it feels to have to wait on some of them.

OTOH, every prospective business owner, before being given a license to open a place of business should be required to complete a class to hone their personal skills. To many people think just because they can pay a fee and be issued a license (An maybe even attended business school) that they are qualified to go into business. Many, many business owners have an "us and them" mentality. The minute you walk into their place of business they immediatly assume the customer doesnt know what they want, are talking about etc. Usually these types of business owners lose customers and do not last long, or if they do they are making pennies. I have owned 2 businesses, one that was very profitable and which I sold and is still open. I have worked in the service industry dealing with irate customers on a daily basis for almost 5 years. I was always able to diffuse any situation in the companies favor while still making the customer happy. It is not the customers responsibility to know what it is like to be served, it is the business owners responsibility to be able to handle difficult customers without losing business. If they are not able to accomplish that small part of owning a business, then they do not need to be in business.