[Bitwise]

What NFA items - suppressors, SBRs, etc. do you have paperwork out on?

I'm currently waiting for a Liberty Mystic 9mm suppressor, but it'll be another couple of months probably. After that I think I'm going to SBR either my AR-15 or my HK-94 clone. Waiting for NFA items has helped teach me patience

 

[Beladran]

im waiting on money to buy one!

 

[Rw]

im waiting on money to buy one!

Me too... if i get this job im trying for then ill have several on the way.

 

[crazyace85]

+1 for waiting on money. I'm taking donations.

 

[jbpmidas]

Waiting to finish buying all the stuff I keep adding to my "wanted" list!

 

[SubGunFan]

I am waiting on the J&G Brothers to get their MaDuce.....

I did all my waiting back in the 80s. Form 4 full-auto transfers that took as long as 6 months, and short as 2 weeks.

If I find a GOOD deal, I might bow-up and get a suppressor one day.... The suppressor I really want would cost me about $800 ($500 for the can, $100 for a barrel to port, and $200 to Uncle Sam). Maybe one day...........

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[Dock Rocker]

Sub you know the M2 is on the way. Jay is a 1919 addict. A new parts kit with an 80% sideplate showed up in the mail today. So now we can go through ammo twice as fast.

As far as transfers are concerned I am waiting on about 16. We are going to have to buy a bigger safe if the ATF dosent get it in gear.

 

[msredneck]

I'm still not convinced that having a full auto or a can is worth all the hoops you gotta jump through....

The :bull: factor is significant...a lot of folks get by it with a Trust...but I'll go out on a limb and be willing to bet that under some real tight scrutiny...some of them would deemed illegal...

combine that with a significant outlay needed to feed them muthas...I'm just gonna have to settle for an occassional trigger squeeze that Subgunfan might let me have at the M&G's

 

[Rw]

My first nfa item will be a 22 can, then ill build a short barrel saiga 12... ive done the research on what needs to be done to make it function right.. just need the funds to buy it and start the govt wait game.

 

[msredneck]

I've talked to several LEO's on Clinton PD about cans...The chief "might" sign off on a 22 can...u can possibly justify it for squirrel hunting I guess...I'd luv to take one to the woods...but you can forget one for something useful...like a 308 Bolt action...not happening

 

[Rw]

Im going the trust route...i wont have to deal with byington

 

[msredneck]

Hire a damn good trust lawyer....U R on your own if you use lawyers.com

 

[Rw]

Garland recomended using willmaker, thats what he used... ill look more into that though when the time comes. Ive got several lawyers both in the family and real close family friends. Im at least 6 months away from starting the whole process anyway, too much else ahead of this money wise.

 

[msredneck]

willmaker

Not exactly what I had in mind...hire a pro.

Good Luck if you get audited


Sorry for the hijack


Back to Topic

 

[Rw]

Believe me, all bases will be thoroughly covered before i buy any nfa item. i dont take potential issues with the atf lightly at all.

 

[Dock Rocker]

willmaker

Not exactly what I had in mind...hire a pro.

Good Luck if you get audited


Sorry for the hijack


Back to Topic

I am going to re-hijack the thread. Exactly who would be doing the auditing? If the NFA branch looks at your paperwork and signs off on your form 4 they have accepted that your trust is valid as far as the NFA is concerned. As far as I have read the NFA branch has never gone back to an approved trust and revoked a form 4. They have asked for changes if there are errors found on a subsequent form 4 applications. When the errors are corrected they issue the form 4.

The validity of the trust is dependent on the state you are in. Most of the horror stories that I have heard over the years were problems with the state. Mississippi has pretty lenient regulations about trusts. So we have less to worry about here than most people.

This is personal opinion, but I have been on both sides of this fence. I have been a person trying to get a can and I had to figure it out myself, and now I have done it as a dealer. Everyone has an opinion about the system and how it does and does not work, and that is what makes it so muddy. There are no clear cut regulations, some inspectors with the NFA branch do things one way, and others do the same thing in a different manor. Some are looking for problems in one area and others could care less. I think that because of all of the conflicting stories and supposition people are scared to do anything. I have found that other than the long wait times the NFA branch is pretty easy to deal with. I made an error with my second can and they were cool about fixing it, and it was a biggie. I got the serial number wrong.

I can say this for fact. Before I was a dealer I used Quicken willmaker with some added language for NFA items. I had two attorney say that it was a valid trust in Mississippi. The NFA branch looked at the trust and issued me two form 4's using the same trust. So I can say that it does work. I am not sure how I could be audited and have my trust rendered invalid, nor can I find a case where that has ever happened.

I am not trying to be combative or stir up any trouble, but I think more people need to know that this can be done and it is not that hard.

 

[msredneck]

Good reply...

while I admit I have not much direct experience with the process....I've researched it enough to know that its too much of a pain in the ass for me...many folks seem to go about it pretty nonchalant...

My point is...No one on lawyers.com or willmaker is gonna come to your aid if you are ever found to have trust problems...i've talked to several FFL's over the years and they've told me some of the half-assed trusts they have seen

all I'm saying is do your due diligence...and getting by on the "cheap" might not be best

Personally, I think its best to "man up" and go get to know your local police chief...

Best to all you rich full auto suppressor buffs

 

[Dock Rocker]

Good reply...

while I admit I have not much direct experience with the process....I've researched it enough to know that its too much of a pain in the ass for me...many folks seem to go about it pretty nonchalant...

My point is...No one on lawyers.com or willmaker is gonna come to your aid if you are ever found to have trust problems...i've talked to several FFL's over the years and they've told me some of the half-assed trusts they have seen

all I'm saying is do your due diligence...and getting by on the "cheap" might not be best

Personally, I think its best to "man up" and go get to know your local police chief...

Best to all you rich full auto suppressor buffs

Neck I agree that the pain in the ass factor is high. It should not be, but our government has made it that way. You are also correct in the "you get what you pay for" statement. Quicken or any other outfit like them is going to come to your aid. It is all on you! You have to do your research and if you dont you may pay for it in the end. There is at least one lawyer on this board who will help with this.

I would be happy to get my chief LEO to sign off (would be A LOT easier), but I live in Hinds county and McMillian will not sign off on anything unless you are a buddy of his. I was forced to go the trust rout.

I think that suppressors are cool enough to go through the whole pain in the butt process, but they are not for everyone. I feel like they should be easier to get, but they are not. I just want people to know that they are attainable if you want to jump through the hoop. I wish there was a dealer out there who was willing to help when I started working on mine. The local Class 3 dealers here in MS were NOT helpful at all.

Sorry I re- re hijacked this thread

 

[Bitwise]

I had a lawyer draw up my trust. He does NFA trusts all the time so he knew what was required (I don't really know what constitutes an "NFA Trust" other than how you use it). It was really no big deal.

I don't want an MG at this time just because I think they're too pricey. However, suppressors are awesome! I started last year with a 22 suppressor and my only regret now is having waited so long. I'm hooked

Edited to add: partially in response to Dock's post above - I got started with Mississippi Auto Arms in Oxford. They were very helpful and walked me through the process. I'd always been a bit intimidated/confused before and I'm not sure I would have gotten into suppressors had they not been as helpful as they were.

 

[VegasSMG]

I'm waiting for a 1919 RSP from Karma that will be home to a post sample bolt. I've got all the parts to include a converted 7.62x54r bolt and barrel that will go into an almost 100% BA 1919 parts kit.

While we're venturing off topic...
A trust is an excellent estate planning tool but despite the current hype, it's not the perfect way to acquire NFA items. Unless you're working on passing your assets on to your kids, then a trust is an unnecessary and complicated means of acquiring NFA firearms.

You don't "need" a trust, or corporation, or LLC, unless you can't get the CLEO signature, or you really need to be able to have someone else take the firearms somewhere without you, or you're using it as part of a comprehensive probate-avoidance plan.

Trusts are like other fads in the gun world. We go through phases where everyone needs a special single point patrol sling, everyone needs a laser or OEG or tactical monopod. EVERYBODY buys the slick new plastic mags and receivers, and then EVERYBODY starts having problems with worn feed lips or egged out axis pin holes. This new widget lasts until the next new thing that everybody needs. Some of the new stuff is good and it lasts, some of it ends up in bargain bins at gun shows marked 90% off.

Just because a trust set up with Quicken Willmaker was approved doesn't mean you have a valid trust. It simply means that the transfer was approved by BATF in the belief the trust was valid. There was at least one case where BATF ruled that a transfer they approved went to an invalid trust and the NFA owner was asked to surrender that weapon to BATF. Quick legal wrangling and a new valid trust saved the day. This was about two years ago and I think the state was GA or AL. Ask the guys on Subguns.com and I'm sure they can validate my claim.

With the stakes and cost so high, you want to ensure your trust will withstand any future legal challenges. DIY is great for home improvement projects, but handling legal matters or doing your own surgery at home may not be the best way to save a buck or two.

IMHO, YMMV, etc.