[TankerHC]

A close relative has decided to buy a handgun to keep in his vehicle, a Judge to be specific. About 15 years ago he was convicted of domestic violence. The judge told him that if he attended the judges specific domestic violence classes succesfully he would expunge the record. So he attended, two nights a week for a whole year and cost him $3000. He completed them succesfully, went back to the judge and the judge told him the record would be expunged. We did a 50 state criminal felony/misdemeaner background check tonight and all that came back was 5 traffic violations from between 85 and 96 and nothing else. So my question is, based on this information, when he fills out the app, at the question where it asks about domestic violence would you check yes or no? Opinions?

 

[NRA_guy]

Personally, I'd check "No".

What's the worst that can happen?

By the way, tell him not to worry if the seller gets a "delay" on the phone call. My record was/is squeaky clean (no nothing ever) and every time I tried to buy a gun the FFL dealer got the "we'll let you know in a few hours".

Every time it was cleared, but that delay can kill a deal if you are in the closing hours of a gun show.

So I got a CCW permit and don't have to do the phone call thing.

 

[Leopardcurdog]

expunge means to wipe out, delete or destroy, so I would mark NO.

 

[Doug Bowser]

A false statement on a 4473 can cost a lot of money. The fines can be as much as $200,000. The way they do it is, if you have nothing they can attach, they drop the charges. If you own a home or have anything of value, they fine you.

Doug

 

[gunluvinatty]

I would double check that the domestic violence conviction was actually expunged.

99-19-71 (as updated)

(3) Upon entering an order of expunction under this section, a nonpublic record thereof shall be retained * * * by the Mississippi Criminal Information Center solely for the purpose of determining whether, in subsequent proceedings, the person is a first offender. The order of expunction shall not preclude a district attorney's office from retaining a nonpublic record thereof for law enforcement purposes only. The existence of an order of expunction shall not preclude an employer from asking a prospective employee if the employee has had an order of expunction entered on his behalf. The effect of the expunction order shall be to restore the person, in the contemplation of the law, to the status he occupied before any arrest or indictment for which convicted. No person as to whom an expunction order has been entered shall be held thereafter under any provision of law to be guilty of perjury or to have otherwise given a false statement by reason of his failure to recite or acknowledge such arrest, indictment or conviction in response to any inquiry made of him for any purpose other than the purpose of determining, in any subsequent proceedings under this section, whether the person is a first offender. A person as to whom an order has been entered, upon request, shall be required to advise the court, in camera, of the previous conviction and expunction in any legal proceeding wherein the person has been called as a prospective juror. The court shall thereafter and before the selection of the jury advise the attorneys representing the parties of the previous conviction and expunction.

 

[pinetor]

A close relative has decided to buy a handgun to keep in his vehicle, a Judge to be specific. About 15 years ago he was convicted of domestic violence. The judge told him that if he attended the judges specific domestic violence classes succesfully he would expunge the record. So he attended, two nights a week for a whole year and cost him $3000. He completed them succesfully, went back to the judge and the judge told him the record would be expunged. We did a 50 state criminal felony/misdemeaner background check tonight and all that came back was 5 traffic violations from between 85 and 96 and nothing else. So my question is, based on this information, when he fills out the app, at the question where it asks about domestic violence would you check yes or no? Opinions?

Just out of curiuosity how did you do the background check?

 

[TankerHC]

We called the state/county that he was convicted in this morning and they have no record of it. It was his first and only offence.

This part seems to be what we were wondering

"The effect of the expunction order shall be to restore the person, in the contemplation of the law, to the status he occupied before any arrest or indictment for which convicted. No person as to whom an expunction order has been entered shall be held thereafter under any provision of law to be guilty of perjury or to have otherwise given a false statement by reason of his failure to recite or acknowledge such arrest, indictment or conviction in response to any inquiry made of him for any purpose other than the purpose of determining, in any subsequent proceedings under this section, whether the person is a first offender"

Thanks for that info.

 

[TankerHC]

We did the background check online, by a company that my attorney recommended. They search every state and county in all 50 states and Puerto Rico.

 

[NRA_guy]

A false statement on a 4473 can cost a lot of money. The fines can be as much as $200,000. The way they do it is, if you have nothing they can attach, they drop the charges. If you own a home or have anything of value, they fine you.

Doug

Yeah, but the only thing an FFL gets back from the background check is "PROCEED", "DELAYED", or "DENIED"---right?

The basis for denial is not disclosed to the FFL dealer is it?

And the FFL dealer does not send in the 4473 to the ATF or FBI---right?

 

[NRA_guy]

Here you go (from 18 USC § 921):

(ii)
(A) Except as provided in subparagraph (C), <Note: No subparagraph (C) has been enacted.> the term “misdemeanor crime of domestic violence” means an offense that—

A person shall not be considered to have been convicted of such an offense for purposes of this chapter if the conviction has been expunged or set aside, or is an offense for which the person has been pardoned or has had civil rights restored (if the law of the applicable jurisdiction provides for the loss of civil rights under such an offense) unless the pardon, expungement, or restoration of civil rights expressly provides that the person may not ship, transport, possess, or receive firearms.

SOURCE

 

[360glitch]

A false statement on a 4473 can cost a lot of money. The fines can be as much as $200,000. The way they do it is, if you have nothing they can attach, they drop the charges. If you own a home or have anything of value, they fine you.

Doug

Yeah, but the only thing an FFL gets back from the background check is "PROCEED", "DELAYED", or "DENIED"---right?

The basis for denial is not disclosed to the FFL dealer is it?

And the FFL dealer does not send in the 4473 to the ATF or FBI---right?

I can confirm that the FFL dealer is not told why the decision to "deny" is made, when it happens. The dealer does send the 4473 to the ATF at a later date, not sure if it is once a year or what but we send them in bulk.

 

[captain-03]

I hope he has that agreement with the Judge in writing!

 

[NRA_guy]

I can confirm that the FFL dealer is not told why the decision to "deny" is made, when it happens. The dealer does send the 4473 to the ATF at a later date, not sure if it is once a year or what but we send them in bulk.

So...all FFL sold guns that are not supposed to be "registered" are actually recorded in paperwork kept by the ATF?

Still, I am surprised that a completed form that results in a denial gets sent in to the ATF. Even so, my guess (knowing how Federal bureaucracies work) is that the ATF is stacking them up in a giant warehouse somewhere.

Only time they would take the effort to deal with an individual sale would likely be if some famous person was involved---like the promiscuous football quarterback who was shot a year or so ago by his girlfriend---or if the buyer used it to kill a bunch of people.

 

[360glitch]

I can confirm that the FFL dealer is not told why the decision to "deny" is made, when it happens. The dealer does send the 4473 to the ATF at a later date, not sure if it is once a year or what but we send them in bulk.

So...all FFL sold guns that are not supposed to be "registered" are actually recorded in paperwork kept by the ATF?

Still, I am surprised that a completed form that results in a denial gets sent in to the ATF. Even so, my guess (knowing how Federal bureaucracies work) is that the ATF is stacking them up in a giant warehouse somewhere.

Only time they would take the effort to deal with an individual sale would likely be if some famous person was involved---like the promiscuous football quarterback who was shot a year or so ago by his girlfriend---or if the buyer used it to kill a bunch of people.

I'd agree in thinking that it is very unlikely they will go through each and every one of them, and that they probably only look at ones that are later tied to a criminal case of some sort, when and if that occurs.

 

[crossedcannons45]

When I was a kid (13 or so) I pulled a really stupid stunt that for some reason I thought would be funny (it wasnt) that would have probably landed me in prison for a while if it had happened in present times and did get me locked up in juvie for 6 months...like I said "really stupid"... My record was expunged upon my 18th birthday and I havent been in any (serious) trouble since I was 13 and I was still able to buy a handgun without even a "wait" and get a firearms permit. I called around and spoke to several lawyers on the subject, one of which was kind enough to go into detail with me and not charge me for his time (must have been a gun fella) and the gist of things is that if your record has been expunged then you can legally answer "no" on the form in the appropriate box (I only have 2 guns so I havent filled out many of those forms and dont remember what # it is).

Keep in mind that only a fool gets his legal advice from the internet though and do your own research since your buddys situation may be different but as far as I know I think hes good to go

No I'm not a criminal so dont get all worried, I was just a stupid kid and I learned my lesson...the hard way

 

[NRA_guy]

Only thing that worries me is the fact that you only have two guns.

 

[crossedcannons45]

Only thing that worries me is the fact that you only have two guns.

hahah I'm working on it .Other things take higher priority on the financial list but my change jar gets closer to full every day

:OT1: ...sorry